I got drive-by downvotes from Apple fanbois for saying this in a previous thread, but I think this could actually have a significant impact on the iOS user base in the long term. I'd wager that a significant portion of iOS's user acquisition funnel is children for whom Fortnite is a requirement. All those kids will be throwing tantrums until their parents get them an Android device.
Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
221–230 of 638 posts
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#222This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…
If you rely on the good graces of Apple/Google/Twitter/Facebook/MonolithOfTheWeek for your business to survive, eventually you're going to have a bad time.
Twitter and Facebook entirely eradicated based around their API's.
In Apple's response to Epic, they make the case there is absolutely no way to define them as a monopoly, since even just for Fortnite, there are a half dozen competing platforms of which they note, the App Store isn't even the biggest one.
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#223This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…
They broke the TOS on purpose and are now crying about that Apple actually held the line. I think Apple is way overpriced too, but when you go into their ecosystem and profit on it - you have to play by the rules. If you break the rules, you get removed. I would expect the same treatment on any app store.
Why do people show Apple's ToS so much deference but then (rightfully) shit on all other ToSes by other people? ToSes suck. Most people don't even read them. I'm sure big companies like Epic have lawyers that do actually read them, but still, it's not like you have a choice in the matter. You can't just not publish on the biggest mobile market. The ToS isn't a negotiation, it's just a big monopoly owner exerting their will over others.
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
Replace Apple’s iOS ecosystem with Microsoft’s Xbox, Sony’s PlayStation or Nintendo’s Switch. Either you destroy the console ecosystem by forcing them all to open up, or classify iOS as somehow different... or you leave them all to enforce their business agreements through mutually accepted legal term. If Epic doesn’t want a different agreement than Apple, they can negotiate alternative legal terms.
How would opening up consoles destroy their ecosystem?
It obviously wouldn't. Windows PCs are open (relative to consoles) and have a more vibrant and diverse set of games available.
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then they should first fight it before breaking it.
You can't sue someone unless you can prove damages. There's no way to fight this without breaking the rule first. I'm not a lawyer though so maybe there's an exception to this rule.
They have proved that, already. They could have reverted the direct payment system, kept only Apple IAP, and then sued even for damage recovery of 30% since the beginning of the lawsuit (or even the beginning of Fortnite on iOS). Apple has clearly written even in legal documents of the lawsuit that reverting the direct payment change would have been enough to keep operating Fortnite on iOS fully featured.
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
We already have an open console market. It's called the PC market. Consoles are nothing but closed PCs. Did opening up destroy the PC market? No. But opening up another console market probably would destroy it; there's no reason to separate a hypothetical new PC market from the old PC market. So if you have a PC market and a PS4 market, and then you open the PS4, you have a PC market and another PC market, and then y…
The console market has been slowly dying for the last decade. If anything, opening the console market could help rejuvenate it by turning consoles into general purpose entertainment devices. And the claim that consoles are just closed down PCs is absurd. Consoles can play AAA games at a fraction of the cost of your average PC. The hardware that goes into building a console is significantly different than a PC.
>> The console market has been slowly dying for the last decade. If anything, opening the console market could help rejuvenate it by turning consoles into general purpose entertainment devices there was a time when consoles didnt require internet tethering, were media capable, and could be used for common PC tasks.
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
Replace Apple’s iOS ecosystem with Microsoft’s Xbox, Sony’s PlayStation or Nintendo’s Switch. Either you destroy the console ecosystem by forcing them all to open up, or classify iOS as somehow different... or you leave them all to enforce their business agreements through mutually accepted legal term. If Epic doesn’t want a different agreement than Apple, they can negotiate alternative legal terms.
There's a bit of a difference since you can easily have multiple consoles as well as a PC, but you can't easily have multiple mobile phones, since it's very inconvenient to carry them, charge them, pay for multiple data plans, sync data, etc. Consoles should also be forced to open up though, and there's no reason why that would "destroy the console ecosystem". They might have to raise the prices of the consoles, but…
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Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#228This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…
> Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, Isn't this why people pay the Apple tax? To have them protect you (their users) from 'bad apples'? Everyone liked their over bearing approach to their eco-system until it directly affected them, and now it's too much? Have your cake and eat it too?
Maybe Apple could let each user pay to have Apple lock down their device since it is valued so much.
Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Either you destroy the console ecosystem by forcing them all to open up How is this true? Consoles predate app stores by many decades.
Consoles were and still are app stores in their entirety. Just because the technical sophistication to lock them down tight wasn't there at the beginning and they could be "hacked" didn't mean the same rules didn't apply. If you want to release a game on Xbox, PlayStation, or GameBoy, you did so at the will of Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo. They did, and still do, tightly control the content that's allowed on their co…
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Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
And again, I'm sympathetic to that argument. But then don't argue that the iPhone is exactly the same. I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that Apple would stop producing the iPhone if sideloading was allowed. The smartphone market doesn't operate the same way as the console market.
I wonder if they could just make that an option on purchase? “Do you want us to enforce security and privacy or do you want to take that on yourself?”. I for one would opt for handling my own privacy on some of my own devices, but would definitely lock my kids down with Apple approved only option.
The point is that people would follow YouTube videos that promise CRACKED SPOTIFY to change that choice so that they can download a copy of a cracked version of Spotify filled with malware. That in turns reflects badly with Apple because it would be assumed that the platform is not secured and cannot be trusted with private / sensitive data (both in B2C and B2B settings). If anything, I think we should at least agree that it’s Apple’s choice whether run this risk or not on their own product.