Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

macrumors.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 638 posts

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#241

Post by threeseed »

sneak wrote: post #48

I think Apple’s brain drain over the last decade is finally starting to show. This undermines their entire user-facing SSO strategy with anyone paying attention. (The dev-facing “implement our SSO or you can’t be on the iPhone” isn’t really a “strategy” per se.) Of course apps will have to support it to be in the App Store, but this means that any user paying attention now knows that their accounts/logins for PAID SE…

> I really hope this will damage Apple’s brand and platform

This is a really ignorant and pretty crazy comment.

Apple is this year moving to their own silicon and likely next year we will see the fruits of the large number of AR/VR acquisitions.

Seems to me like you would need a lot of specialist talent to do both.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#243

Post by heimatau »

joshstrange wrote: post #14

It's always interesting to read the comments on articles about the Epic Games situation. We can have discussions about Apple's cut or how Apple operates their store but this is such a clear cut case that I'm honestly surprised so many HN readers are siding with Epic (or maybe it's just the anti-Apple crowd looking for any reason to crap on Apple). Epic tried to get Apple to allow a whole new store on their platform A…

I disagree with your entire take. Namely because you assume they can do whatever they want.

A mall owner can't dictate how it's residents receive money.* Nor would it be wise of them to take a share of their commercial resident's sales.*

I'm not arguing on legality. I'm arguing based on social norms (not ethics either).

Apple is extreme social behavior of a corporation. There are multiple situations where Apple copied something another app developer made.

I doubt Epic will win but...it may open up the conversation and maybe finally encourage other developers to push back on Apple, so that a more socially acceptable structure is within the App Store (and it's ecosystem).

If this doesn't cause Apple to reform, the next escalation is clearly inciting a frenzy to push the Govt to execute judgement with the antitrust laws. Even if they're outdated, the case is clear. Apple hasn't just been a bad actor once or twice but numerous instances. If Epic does this with their current case, I'm uncertain that they'll achieve their desired outcome because their limited situation doesn't seem as clear cut.

* - If the contract says this...it's still not socially fair. Land is vast...the phone ecosystem is not. Which means a mall owner will meet a lot of competition to push them to either change or they'll go out of business due to undue hardship put on the commercial tenants.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#244

Post by ksk »

RL_Quine wrote: post #21
modeless wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic alleges that Apple is breaking the law, and breaking the App Store rules was a pretty much required step to establish standing to sue. Is Apple above the legal system, such that they should be able to destroy businesses that dare to challenge them in court, regardless of the merits of their claims and before they are even heard?

Where does the marketing campaign fit into your story?

There was also a marketing campaign for Net Neutrality by pretty much every single tech company. It's perfectly fine that anyone at anytime can raise awareness for their cause. And in this case, the cause is in everyones interest who is losing 30% of their sales to Apple in an immoral tax.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#245

Post by 411111111111111 »

strbean wrote: post #221

I got drive-by downvotes from Apple fanbois for saying this in a previous thread, but I think this could actually have a significant impact on the iOS user base in the long term. I'd wager that a significant portion of iOS's user acquisition funnel is children for whom Fortnite is a requirement. All those kids will be throwing tantrums until their parents get them an Android device.

I seriously doubt that.

Apple hardware has always been more about being a status symbol then utility.

To the average Apple user it's just not cool enough if it isn't availble on Apple hardware.

Even looking back I'm still surprised how effectively Apple polarized people into fans vs haters after steve jobs rejoined back then...

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#246

Post by KMnO4 »

tln wrote: post #189
hello_tyler wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They broke the TOS on purpose and are now crying about that Apple actually held the line. I think Apple is way overpriced too, but when you go into their ecosystem and profit on it - you have to play by the rules. If you break the rules, you get removed. I would expect the same treatment on any app store.

They broke a guideline on purpose. Apple responded by removing from the app store. That's normal. Apple's other actions are just retaliatory: threatening the unreal engine, terminating developer accounts from affiliates, and yanking Apple login. It's those actions that you shouldn't expect.

It seems like Apple's retaliation was prompted by Epic's lawsuit -- not by the (trivial) breach of ToS.

The precedence Apple wants to set is: break ToS, get kicked off the store. Break ToS and then try to take Apple to court, get kicked off the platform.

It's pretty obvious that Fortnite is just the pawn that Epic used to wage war. This is obvious to Apple too, hence their counterclaim for punitive damages.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#247

Post by urda »

aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

> Horrible company.

Yes Epic is. They willingly violated their TOS to the point of even communicating that they were going to violate their TOS. Surprise, surprise if you break the rules don't be shocked when they are enforced. They also are attempting to user their Engine and customer base (against their will) to fight a battle that they don't want to be a part of.

This isn't Apple just erasing a company because they felt like it, and Apple isn't the antagonizing party at all. Don't coflate the necessary need to protest against actual issues like corrupt governments versus not getting your video game the way you like it. It weakens the word and idea of actual protest.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#248

Post by himinlomax »

maxsilver wrote: post #239
jmpman wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace Apple’s iOS ecosystem with Microsoft’s Xbox, Sony’s PlayStation or Nintendo’s Switch. Either you destroy the console ecosystem by forcing them all to open up, or classify iOS as somehow different... or you leave them all to enforce their business agreements through mutually accepted legal term. If Epic doesn’t want a different agreement than Apple, they can negotiate alternative legal terms.

> Either you destroy the console ecosystem by forcing them all to open up, or classify iOS as somehow different. Console ecosystems are already open-by-law, based on past cases from the 80s and 90s. You can already publish a game to a Switch or PlayStation without ever going through Nintendo or Sony (so long as you don't steal any copywritten assets to do so). You can even publish your own software, that modifies any…

> copywritten

copyrighted

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#249

Post by mythz »

cavanasm wrote: post #220
mythz wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is untrue. Their harm was of their own making which was why the Judge dismissed their injunction: > The Court finds that with respect to Epic Games’ motion as to its games, including Fortnite, Epic Games has not yet demonstrated irreparable harm. The current predicament appears of its own making. Epic strategically chose to breach its agreements with Apple How can purposefully violating someone's contract be a p…

There hasn't been a hearing on an injunction yet, that happens later this month. The hearing that HAS happened was on a temporary restraining order, which was to keep Apple from doing anything UNTIL AFTER the injunction hearing. The difference is important, the temporary restraining order's effects are only limited to that August-September time window, and the hearing itself had limited argument, and very little prep…

That's correct, the ruling was for the TRO. But this still doesn't answer why "They needed to do it this way", i.e. why was their willful subversive violation a prerequisite for their lawsuit against Apple & how can that be advantageous to the party committing the violations?

So far it hasn't been. It appears obvious their approach was to first inflict PR damage & garner public support prior to commencing legal action.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#250

Post by scarface74 »

maxsilver wrote: post #239
jmpman wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace Apple’s iOS ecosystem with Microsoft’s Xbox, Sony’s PlayStation or Nintendo’s Switch. Either you destroy the console ecosystem by forcing them all to open up, or classify iOS as somehow different... or you leave them all to enforce their business agreements through mutually accepted legal term. If Epic doesn’t want a different agreement than Apple, they can negotiate alternative legal terms.

> Either you destroy the console ecosystem by forcing them all to open up, or classify iOS as somehow different. Console ecosystems are already open-by-law, based on past cases from the 80s and 90s. You can already publish a game to a Switch or PlayStation without ever going through Nintendo or Sony (so long as you don't steal any copywritten assets to do so). You can even publish your own software, that modifies any…

What are the chances that you can clean room reverse engineer all of the software that has to be included with your game to allow it to run on any console? Besides that, most games - especially Fortnite - have an online component and live and die by being able to apply online.
Post reply on HN