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Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#131

Post by pradn »

aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

$5 or $10 billion don't seem like much now that Apple is a $2 trillion company...

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#132

Post by Spivak »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #110
nemothekid wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really hope this will damage Apple’s brand and platform... They enforce their TOS randomly and this will happen to smaller companies too. Epic's own customers are blaming Epic for this snafu. It's hard to see Apple as the bad guy when Epic is the one who broke the rules first. Almost every gamer isn't going to be sympathetic to a player who broke the rules and got banned.

If rules are illegal then breaking them to challenge them in court seems justified

Absolutely, but I'm surprised to see so many people think that civil disobedience is a consequence free act. The whole point is that you break the law and then visibly suffer the consequences to get attention.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#134

Post by foota »

hello_tyler wrote: post #122
aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

They broke the TOS on purpose and are now crying about that Apple actually held the line. I think Apple is way overpriced too, but when you go into their ecosystem and profit on it - you have to play by the rules. If you break the rules, you get removed. I would expect the same treatment on any app store.

I believe epic's point is that they believe the ToS to be illegal.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#135

Post by jhatemyjob »

jmpman wrote: post #25
aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

Replace Apple’s iOS ecosystem with Microsoft’s Xbox, Sony’s PlayStation or Nintendo’s Switch. Either you destroy the console ecosystem by forcing them all to open up, or classify iOS as somehow different... or you leave them all to enforce their business agreements through mutually accepted legal term. If Epic doesn’t want a different agreement than Apple, they can negotiate alternative legal terms.

That analogy would make some modicum of sense but there is a flaw in your argument. Those are video game consoles. WHO GIVES A FUCK

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#136

Post by danShumway »

CharlesW wrote: post #121
danShumway wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've commented to the same effect at least 2 or 3 times over the duration of this lawsuit, but just to keep repeating: if you get too picky about who is and isn't allowed to advocate for you, eventually everyone will stop advocating for you. A billion dollar company is completely necessary to tackle Apple. This stuff is important, and advocates for user-freedom and device ownership can't afford to put every company t…

> A billion dollar company is completely necessary to tackle Apple. Absolutely not. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/22/apple-approves-hey-email-app...

It's a real stretch to look at what happened with Hey and think that they took on Apple and won. They re-engineered their app to fit in with Apple's terms offering a completely new service on the platform. And there were no changes to Apple's terms as a result of that, and no net benefit to any other developer.

The only benefit that came out of the controversy over Hey was that Epic got another example incident they could trot out in an actual legal case over antitrust that has the potential to impact multiple developers.

Hey cannot be the champion in the fight against Apple, they don't have the popularity or resources to win that fight. There was never any chance during Hey's fight with Apple that it was going to result in ordinary consumers being able to decide what code they want to run on their own devices.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#137

Post by supernovae »

Spivak wrote: post #100
supernovae wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has allowed sideloading and community developed games and apps on Xbox for a while now.

I don't think regulators will really see a difference when it comes to the actual market forces at play. If MS doesn't bless your game it's dead regardless of if it's technically possible to get it to run.

Well, Apple crossed that bridge, Microsoft hasn't. I can't for the life of me care what Xbox does when they're not kicking publishers off the store and obviously Epic has their games on Xbox and Playstation so something is different/better in that relationship.

Truth is Xbox does have independent developer programs and you can sideload games.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#138

Post by [deleted] »

aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#139

Post by thdrdt »

foota wrote: post #134
hello_tyler wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They broke the TOS on purpose and are now crying about that Apple actually held the line. I think Apple is way overpriced too, but when you go into their ecosystem and profit on it - you have to play by the rules. If you break the rules, you get removed. I would expect the same treatment on any app store.

I believe epic's point is that they believe the ToS to be illegal.

Then they should first fight it before breaking it.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#140

Post by markus_zhang »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #16
aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

> Certainly, for public opinion, it means you now have to "tow the line", no protesting allowed. If you dare challenge us, we WILL REMOVE YOU. Isn't that how all private companies work? If you walk into a mom-and-pop corner shop with no "shoes or shirt" you'll be removed as well—whether or not you think it's some kind of righteous protest.

You can't remove them for whatever reason you put up. I won't give examples but for sure the public has to believe that the reason is reasonable enough. As for now the opinion is divided, some believe Apple is reasonable and some think not. It's interesting to see where it goes. As a customer I prefer to see Epic win this time although I'm sure EPic will do the same in Apple's shoes.
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