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Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

wsj.com

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Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#501

Post by gigatexal »

throwaway34241 wrote: post #495
gigatexal wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like tyranny to me. All of this imposition to force the market leaders to change instead of championing other champions. Nobody was giving mind to Apple when Rim and Nokia and Sony were the big players. Apple just made a better device that the market liked more. There will be a new better thing to come along it just needs to be invented.

There are network effects with software platforms that give the established players an advantage. Modern smartphones are more like PCs than feature phones where people generally don't care much about the third party software ecosystem. If Microsoft had as much power over software distribution in the nineties as Apple does now, they would probably have (smartly for them) severely limited or eliminated web browsers, an…

Throwaway account ... hmm. Is that you Tim Sweeney? ;)

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#502

Post by ksk »

cafed00d wrote: post #205
ksk wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is setting a dangerous precedent. A general purpose computing device is now a "service" that you need to pay for. With that logic you can call anything a service. An OS is a service that lets you stream "unlimited" video to your display. Given the level of greed displayed by Apple, they're going to setup a tollbooth at every single spot they can. Maybe Intel can setup the ultimate tollbooth on their CPU by pr…

Yes, OSes are a service. Do you expect the consumer to patch security bugs in the OS as they are discovered? Doesn't a steady, predictable, stream of regular "OS Updates" entrench the fact that OSes are indeed services? Honestly, tech was depressing in those days when NHS was running on Windows XP. Oh wait; yes, you're right. "These" days are still around today :( https://www.tripwire.com/state-of-security/healthcare…

A product like an OS can have an associated maintenance plan / service that you can pay for. Agreed.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#503

Post by dylan-m »

kalleboo wrote: post #474
yazaddaruvala wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All products even with ownership come with rules and regulations. Houses can’t be arbitrarily changed. Cars have governors. Scissors shouldn’t be run with. Ownership of an iPhone is not different. It just has special rules attached. If you don’t mind breaking the warranty, please jailbreak your iPhone and install whatever apps you’d prefer.

> Houses can’t be arbitrarily changed. Cars have governors. Scissors shouldn’t be run with. None of these regulations are decided by the company that manufactured the device, they are all decided democratically by an elected state. How about... Houses can't have arbitrary appliances installed that weren't made by someone approved by the house-builder Cars can't fill up gas from a stand not paying 30% by the car manuf…

> Scissors can't cut paper sold by someone unaffiliated by the scissor manufacturer.

Of course, going by evidence in these threads, people would defend Scissors Corp to the death, arguing "but that's a feature which makes these scissors safe so people don't injure themselves, and sure they own half of the scissors (and paper) market but you can always bring your own scissors (and paper) and avoid interacting with people who use Scissors Corp stuff, so what's the problem?"

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#504

Post by ksk »

swiley wrote: post #306
ksk wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this kind of behavior is wide-spread - Climbing a ladder and then kicking it down once you're on the top because you don't need it anymore. Twitter is the famous example of doing that where they grew their network on the backs of third party clients, and then rate-limited them out of existence.

The lesson here is: invest in protocols and open standards, not “apps” and closed platforms.

Yes, 100% agree. The problem always seems to come when there is money involved. Especially when you take someone elses money, and then get corrupted by the pressure of returning the principal with interest. You get slow-cooked into compromising your ideals, even if you personally were never greedy/malicious. I suppose that's easy to say for me, since I was never in that position :)

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#505

Post by throwaway34241 »

gigatexal wrote: post #501
throwaway34241 wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are network effects with software platforms that give the established players an advantage. Modern smartphones are more like PCs than feature phones where people generally don't care much about the third party software ecosystem. If Microsoft had as much power over software distribution in the nineties as Apple does now, they would probably have (smartly for them) severely limited or eliminated web browsers, an…

Throwaway account ... hmm. Is that you Tim Sweeney? ;)

It's not really a throwaway, I've been using the account for a while and commenting semi-regularly. I've periodically wondered if I should email the moderators to try to change it to something less misleading...

Despite not being Tim Sweeney I think as a developer and a consumer I would prefer having the option to install alternative app stores. I'd like to be able to buy apps in a way that lets me install them across platforms, and don't like solely depending on Apple for curation when they ban apps like streaming / emulators etc that don't seem to be a real security concern.

I don't care about mobile as much as laptops and future platforms like VR/AR, but it seems like the trend in general is for things to be more locked down with a few companies acting as gatekeepers. Strong sandboxing with permissions seems great but I don't see why that has to be coupled with everything needing to go through one company for approval.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#506

Post by ac29 »

pjmlp wrote: post #430
dr_dshiv wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple owns the marketplace on their platform. When they undermine competing payment systems using their monopoly power then they appear to be acting anticompetitively in a manner that is against the consumers best interest. This is only an issue when they use their monopoly power to undermine consumer interests.

Consumers get their apps, there is no undermining taking place. Maybe I should complain that Sony abuses the PS4 market so I can't run Switch titles on the PS4.

Consumers get their apps for ~40% higher prices than if developers could offer them directly (granted, payment processing isnt free anywhere, but Apple charges an order of magnitude more than the alternatives).

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#507

Post by adsjhdashkj »

rimliu wrote: post #46
adsjhdashkj wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt like every poor quality controlled release they've had on OSX for the last 10 years has been trying to do that. I feel lost. Wanting to have a simple OS that lets me develop with unix tools but also "just works". The expense i pay for Apple products no longer follows this, for me.

What stops you from using other OSes with much better quality control?

Nothing - if i knew of any.

All the Linux OSs i've tried is a mixed bag. A gamble. And i have a terrible experience with windows currently, so even ignoring Unix, Windows doesn't seem like an option.

I'll probably give Linux another try, i'm just concerned of driver issues primarily. Finding the right hardware, having trackpads and graphics cards not suck, etc.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#508

Post by Kuinox »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #467
tssva wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android allows installation of apps outside of the Google Play store but Epic is pursuing the same path against Google.

Didn’t Epic initially go around the Play Store and require you to download an installer from their website? And then it turned out that it was a good malware vector? That’s what I fear will happen if we get alternate stores: lax security leading to malware.

Make it that you must sign the binaries. Google distribute/manage the keys, but are not allowed to veto legal things.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#509

Post by ac29 »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #467
tssva wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android allows installation of apps outside of the Google Play store but Epic is pursuing the same path against Google.

Didn’t Epic initially go around the Play Store and require you to download an installer from their website? And then it turned out that it was a good malware vector? That’s what I fear will happen if we get alternate stores: lax security leading to malware.

Yes, it had a bug that could lead to a different malicious application being able to install its own APKs: https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/112630336

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#510

Post by AsyncAwait »

For people saying this is just the iPhone and I can always buy from a different OEM, it's not about my individual choice.

Say I am a mobile bank or some other kind of service that needs to reach all my customers on mobile.

There are significant populations across the world on iPhone, so to stay competitive as something like a challenger bank, ignoring iOS is simply not an option.

If the argument is that Apple provides payment processing, this is not a benefit as it's the only option, i.e. does not win on the merits.

As for game consoles, they're not essential. Smartphones are.

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