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Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

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Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#871

Post by relativitypro »

kevstev wrote: post #140
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

As a mid 30s childless man I completely agree. We essentially sent people home on a Friday, told them to figure out a work from home situation, and then they were told welp your kids aren't going to school either, and whatever childcare you had lined up has now vanished too- and this is all happening in the course of a few days at most. So now you have kids to worry about all day, home schooling to oversee, focusing…

Well. I’d like to have had kids, and am jealous of those that have. While the pandemic is a curveball, people With kids are investing in their future and continuing their families. I think the frustration comes from the perspective that your personal life is enriched with kids, while some of the pressing daily grind is put off your shoulders. It isn’t humane to say, but it also isn’t meritorious.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#872

Post by edoloughlin »

nicbou wrote: post #160
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

I don't fully agree with you. Back when I worked in retail or fast food, smokers could step out for a 5 minute smoke break every once in a while. As a non-smoker, I wasn't allowed to just sit there for 5 minutes. At the end of the day, we got paid the same, but smokers got 30 minutes off, courtesy of the non-smokers who picked up the slack. Likewise, parents are excused from work because they have children. I fully a…

That being said, they chose to have children, and I chose not to

Do you have a retirement plan and do you want a return on it? Guess who'll generate that return: other people's children.

childless employees should also get time for their personal obligations

That's a tricky one. Is your paragliding trip an investment that will generate future value for society?

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#873

Post by ____unionize___ »

So much debate about cost/benefits of children and to whom.

Which employees subsidise others....

It's the _employer_ doing it. Allowing it. If there's good benefits (who doesn't want to work less/more flexibly). There's no reason not to give it to everybody. Act of god is kind of just an accelerator here.

So long as there's shareholder value to be extracted, saying it's impossible is a lie.

Stop squabbling and stand together to demand better working conditions for all.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#875

Post by mrexroad »

dheera wrote: post #703
betterunix2 wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A big part of the resentment is that a person who chose to have children ends up being able to be excused from work to take care of children, while a person who has no children is not as easily excused to do what they want to do, because it is deemed low priority compared to children." So, a few problems here: 1. Parenting is not a choice when you have children in your home. 2. Most parents do not want to be woken u…

So while I agree with your facts here, I would also like to point out that there are other things besides parenting that are also non-negotiable but are neglected. 1. Yes, children need self-care. But so do adults. Just as it is wrong to tell someone they can't take care of their child, I'd say it's equally wrong to tell an adult that they can't, for example, get their exercise time, because I would consider that als…

Please pardon the COVID parent in me, but... Spare time? What the fuck is that even? Mental health? Critical, but after the absolute minimum needed to stave off burn out, everything is diverted to minimizing the long term damage to my kids (especially those with special needs). I spent years working 70-90 hour weeks for months at a time at startups... but trying to even get a solid 35-40hours in each week is taking a far greater toll.

But from what you’re saying, it sounds like you need better communication with your management. Otherwise, I can’t imagine it having been a healthy environment pre-COVID.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#876

Post by II2II »

shard wrote: post #619
rhizome wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A BIG chunk of all that drama is due to the US social safety net not including childcare. That's the thing disturbing thing about these stories: employees are turned against each other when it's a) the company; and b) your tax dollars, not providing any kind of built-in childcare for society. In France, kids can go to preschool and have pre- and post- school childcare, which has to be paid, but it's only like $500/mo…

Childcare, although helpful for those parents who cannot WFH, would seem to present a choice to those who can: either put your children into a riskier environment, or accept that you will be less productive than your colleagues who are willing to take that risk. That's a terrible choice for a parent to make. The safest method would be to permanently assign one child care professional to a family, to limit any transmi…

The amount of risk depends upon where a person lives. I am in a part of the world that acted aggressively early and got the spread under control. The only real concern is that someone from outside of the region will import covid since we are still dependent upon trade and some people don't like playing by the rules, while people within the region are getting a bit complacent should that happen.

Even assigning one child care professional per household with children is impractical. That would amount to one care giver per one or two income earners in those families, while still introducing vectors for the virus to spread. It is a disproportionate amount of the workforce and would be incredibly expensive. Good child care professionals aren't working for minimum wage.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#877

Post by EvilEy3 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

> What's next, complaining that the cancer patient gets extra time off so why don't I?

If they brought cancer tumor on themselves, then yes. [You just compared kids and cancer, mate, FYI]

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#878

Post by gwd »

dkersten wrote: post #861
betterunix2 wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A big part of the resentment is that a person who chose to have children ends up being able to be excused from work to take care of children, while a person who has no children is not as easily excused to do what they want to do, because it is deemed low priority compared to children." So, a few problems here: 1. Parenting is not a choice when you have children in your home. 2. Most parents do not want to be woken u…

> Parenting is not a choice when you have children in your home. Of course not, but choosing to have children in the first place is.

> Of course not, but choosing to have children in the first place is.

The choice to have kids isn't like the choice to work out or get good at Starcraft. It's a choice which benefits all of society.

If you're 30, the toddlers of today will be voting and coming into the workforce and voting when you're 50; and will be basically running your country when you're 70. If the next generation isn't raised to take your place, your retirement is going to really stink. And the character and attitude of the toddlers now are going to have a massive impact on your life.

When the harassed parent on your Zoom call apologizes and puts you on mute to spend 30 seconds interacting with their toddler, that's an investment in your own future. Be grateful for them for doing that work.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#879

Post by kelnos »

dheera wrote: post #703
betterunix2 wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A big part of the resentment is that a person who chose to have children ends up being able to be excused from work to take care of children, while a person who has no children is not as easily excused to do what they want to do, because it is deemed low priority compared to children." So, a few problems here: 1. Parenting is not a choice when you have children in your home. 2. Most parents do not want to be woken u…

So while I agree with your facts here, I would also like to point out that there are other things besides parenting that are also non-negotiable but are neglected. 1. Yes, children need self-care. But so do adults. Just as it is wrong to tell someone they can't take care of their child, I'd say it's equally wrong to tell an adult that they can't, for example, get their exercise time, because I would consider that als…

> Just as it is wrong to tell someone they can't take care of their child, I'd say it's equally wrong to tell an adult that they can't, for example, get their exercise time, because I would consider that also a human necessity.

I'm a little confused by this argument, because (if you don't have children) the time you had to exercise pre-COVID is still available to you. If you used to get up at 7am, go out for a run for an hour, come back, shower, and start your work day, you... can still do that.

If somehow you are unable to continue this routine during COVID, perhaps because your employer is expecting you (as someone who is childless) to work until 11pm, which makes you too tired to get up to exercise, then shouldn't your ire be directed at your employer for imposing unreasonable work expectations? It seems pretty pointless to get pissed off at parents because of that.

I also do not have kids. I put in 8-10 hours a day, just as I did pre-COVID, and have the same amount of free time as I used to. It's very different free time, and there are mental health implications to that, but none of that in any way has anything to do with my employer showing empathy toward parents and making allowances for them to take care of their kids during the work day.

The big difference between parents and non-parents is that child care is not optional during work hours. If your school or pre-school or day care or whatever has shut down because of COVID, you can't simply opt out of caring for your child because you have to work. COVID has not given non-parents any new non-work responsibilities during work hours. But it has certainly done so for parents.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#880

Post by [deleted] »

rhizome wrote: post #459
rootusrootus wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring the obvious downsides for a moment, I'd happily trade places with one of my childless coworkers right about now. This morning I went up and down the stairs at least ten times while trying to get my 7- and 9-year old kids successfully established in their first remote learning session, simultaneously participating in two consecutive Zoom meetings with coworkers, and figuring out how to solve a nagging issue i…

A BIG chunk of all that drama is due to the US social safety net not including childcare. That's the thing disturbing thing about these stories: employees are turned against each other when it's a) the company; and b) your tax dollars, not providing any kind of built-in childcare for society. In France, kids can go to preschool and have pre- and post- school childcare, which has to be paid, but it's only like $500/mo…

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