Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#231

Post by pgt » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 5:12 AM UTC

jjcon wrote: post #216

paxys wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There aren't many platforms there are exactly two. And the costs of switching between them are significant enough that this argument holds less water by the day.

> there are exactly two If we are talking about platforms and not codebases there are waaay more than two. iOS (App store) Android (Google Play) FireOS (Amazon App Store) LineageOS (Fdroid) One UI (Galaxy Store) To name a few. These all have distinct and thriving marketplaces for apps with decent market share (some can overlap). The code base they use is irrelevant for this context.

I have never heard of the other three.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#232

Post by jjcon » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 5:12 AM UTC

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #228

jjcon wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also sideload on iOS (without jailbreak), I do it all the time but for some reason no one is talking about that either.

But you can need to do it every 7 days and it requires connecting to PC, right?

Nah you can use AltStore (or others) and it will auto renew your certs. I’ve had an alternate YouTube app and an emulator sideloaded for months and haven’t even thought twice about it.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#233

Post by Google234 » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 5:13 AM UTC

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #229

jjcon wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are exactly two If we are talking about platforms and not codebases there are waaay more than two. iOS (App store) Android (Google Play) FireOS (Amazon App Store) LineageOS (Fdroid) One UI (Galaxy Store) To name a few. These all have distinct and thriving marketplaces for apps with decent market share (some can overlap). The code base they use is irrelevant for this context.

How many of those are installed on more than 1% of mobile devices (however broadly construed)? I think the answer is two. Amazon has like 10% of the tablet market share, but the tablet market is like 1/20th the size of the phone market. Just to demonstrate that this is the variable that matters, consider the case where there are exactly three devices that have each of the other marketplaces installed on them, respect…

Apple store is on like less than 10% of phones to be fair

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#234

Post by Google234 » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 5:14 AM UTC

KindOne wrote: post #144

cjoelrun wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't a better analogy that car dealerships deserve revenue for selling Toyota's cars? Running an app store and providing a safe platform for users isn't free right?

Car dealership analogy is flawed. In some states its illegal for the car manufacturer to directly sale to the consumer, they have to go through car dealerships. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_US_dealership_disputes

A grocery store would be a fine alternative.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#235

Post by burnhamup » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 5:14 AM UTC

simonh wrote: post #126

loktarogar wrote: post #42

> it is a multi-billion dollar enterprise that simply wants to pay nothing for the tremendous value it derives from the App Store. Half true. EPIC doesn't really get any value from the App Store except data delivery, which they're more than willing to do themselves. Fortnite is popular enough that the app discovery part of the store is meaningless.

Epic tried distributing Fortnite via side loading on Android and gave up, and ended up crawling to Google to get on the Play store so we’ve already run that experiment and it failed badly. Stores are vital for discovery at commercial scale. Bear in mind Apple didn’t have to do a store at all. Steve Jobs was against the idea and wanted all iPhone apps to be in house from Apple only in order to maintain quality. Altern…

I'm not so sure that's true. They might have come to the Google Play store as part of their plan to sue Google. Their Google lawsuit has complaints about Google interfering with their third party deals with phone manufacturers.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#236

Post by jjcon » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 5:15 AM UTC

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #229

jjcon wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are exactly two If we are talking about platforms and not codebases there are waaay more than two. iOS (App store) Android (Google Play) FireOS (Amazon App Store) LineageOS (Fdroid) One UI (Galaxy Store) To name a few. These all have distinct and thriving marketplaces for apps with decent market share (some can overlap). The code base they use is irrelevant for this context.

How many of those are installed on more than 1% of mobile devices (however broadly construed)? I think the answer is two. Amazon has like 10% of the tablet market share, but the tablet market is like 1/20th the size of the phone market. Just to demonstrate that this is the variable that matters, consider the case where there are exactly three devices that have each of the other marketplaces installed on them, respect…

> How many of those are installed on more than 1% of mobile devices

4/5 in the examples I gave.

Google, Apple, Samsung and Amazon all have decent market share.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#237

Post by jjcon » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 5:16 AM UTC

pgt wrote: post #231

jjcon wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are exactly two If we are talking about platforms and not codebases there are waaay more than two. iOS (App store) Android (Google Play) FireOS (Amazon App Store) LineageOS (Fdroid) One UI (Galaxy Store) To name a few. These all have distinct and thriving marketplaces for apps with decent market share (some can overlap). The code base they use is irrelevant for this context.

I have never heard of the other three.

You haven’t heard of Samsung or Amazon’s OSs?

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#238

Post by mahkeiro » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 5:16 AM UTC

jjcon wrote: post #216

paxys wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There aren't many platforms there are exactly two. And the costs of switching between them are significant enough that this argument holds less water by the day.

> there are exactly two If we are talking about platforms and not codebases there are waaay more than two. iOS (App store) Android (Google Play) FireOS (Amazon App Store) LineageOS (Fdroid) One UI (Galaxy Store) To name a few. These all have distinct and thriving marketplaces for apps with decent market share (some can overlap). The code base they use is irrelevant for this context.

Your are not naming platform, you are naming alternate app store on Android... completely defeat your point.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#239

Post by jjcon » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 5:18 AM UTC

mahkeiro wrote: post #238

jjcon wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are exactly two If we are talking about platforms and not codebases there are waaay more than two. iOS (App store) Android (Google Play) FireOS (Amazon App Store) LineageOS (Fdroid) One UI (Galaxy Store) To name a few. These all have distinct and thriving marketplaces for apps with decent market share (some can overlap). The code base they use is irrelevant for this context.

Your are not naming platform, you are naming alternate app store on Android... completely defeat your point.

These are all distinct platforms - their code base is irrelevant in the context of marketplaces (as I already noted)

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#240

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 5:20 AM UTC

jjcon wrote: post #236

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many of those are installed on more than 1% of mobile devices (however broadly construed)? I think the answer is two. Amazon has like 10% of the tablet market share, but the tablet market is like 1/20th the size of the phone market. Just to demonstrate that this is the variable that matters, consider the case where there are exactly three devices that have each of the other marketplaces installed on them, respect…

> How many of those are installed on more than 1% of mobile devices 4/5 in the examples I gave. Google, Apple, Samsung and Amazon all have decent market share.

I am skeptical that Amazon has 1% market share. I found a datum that Samsung has like 25M MAU in the US, but I doubt that they do more than 1% of the total app transactions in the US. Maybe in Korea.