Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19 • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#711

Post by siquick » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 3:09 AM UTC

gones00n wrote: post #652

wmsiler wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they chose to have children, and I chose not to Up until the pandemic, my work schedule had almost never been affected by me being parent in any way. I chose to have kids knowing that my wife and I would be able to continue working without this significantly impacting our jobs (after the first several weeks after they were born, of course), and that has always been true until this. You are acting as though parents f…

There's risk in every major life decision, including having kids. I hope I'm not coming off as anti-children but while parents couldn't have anticipated the pandemic and its impact, they need to react to the circumstances. If their home situation requires it, then they should switch to part-time or even quit temporarily. I also agree with giving parents "extra slack", though again there are limits. At this rate the p…

>> I hope I'm not coming off as anti-children but while parents couldn't have anticipated the pandemic and its impact, they need to react to the circumstances. If their home situation requires it, then they should switch to part-time or even quit temporarily.

Putting a family units safety and wellbeing should be a last resort solution. Major disruptions in a kids early life can have seriously negative effects on their future.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#712

Post by smallgovt » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 3:09 AM UTC

RHSeeger wrote: post #635

icebraining wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think it's stupid to resent parents; they need the time for the kids, who aren't at fault in any of this. That said, why do you assume we all care about having a future society? Frankly I only care about existing humans. The species is irrelevant to me.

Ok. Lets say I don't care about your property rights. When you're not home, I can just walk into your home and take whatever I want. Obviously, I can't, because the society we live in values property rights and help people uphold theirs. The fact that there exist selfish individuals that don't care about society as a whole (and it's future) is irrelevant. As a society, we decide what things are important to us and ev…

Huh? You're not allowed to walk into someone's home and steal their stuff because we have something called a legal system that will punish you.

There is nothing in our legal system that compels you to care about future generations -- at least not in the way you're proclaiming.

These childless workers are 100% entitled to their opinions about equitable compensation -- and they're entitled to lobby for these changes as well.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#713

Post by Cd00d » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 3:12 AM UTC

nicbou wrote: post #403

tylerhou wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents chose to have children with the assumption that childcare, schooling, etc. would exist. Almost no everyday citizen could have predicted that there would be a pandemic that would bring those services down for 1+ years. Life during COVID is not what parents expected (or reasonably could have expected) when they chose to have children.

I agree with you. I was thinking about remote work in the long, but this was hidden in the last paragraph. > However, if this arrangement is to last, then childless employees should also get time for their personal obligations, whatever they might be.

I think you'd benefit by looking into the difference between "equality" and "equity".

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#714

Post by varrock » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 3:13 AM UTC

dheera wrote: post #703

betterunix2 wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A big part of the resentment is that a person who chose to have children ends up being able to be excused from work to take care of children, while a person who has no children is not as easily excused to do what they want to do, because it is deemed low priority compared to children." So, a few problems here: 1. Parenting is not a choice when you have children in your home. 2. Most parents do not want to be woken u…

So while I agree with your facts here, I would also like to point out that there are other things besides parenting that are also non-negotiable but are neglected. 1. Yes, children need self-care. But so do adults. Just as it is wrong to tell someone they can't take care of their child, I'd say it's equally wrong to tell an adult that they can't, for example, get their exercise time, because I would consider that als…

Your point one isn't making sense because the parents are not caring for themselves, they are caring for another person. If they wanted to exercise, they'd have to find the same hours as those without children, which is usually before work or after work. They probably have a harder time doing that, too.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#715

Post by bitexploder » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 3:17 AM UTC

ramraj07 wrote: post #682

wmsiler wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they chose to have children, and I chose not to Up until the pandemic, my work schedule had almost never been affected by me being parent in any way. I chose to have kids knowing that my wife and I would be able to continue working without this significantly impacting our jobs (after the first several weeks after they were born, of course), and that has always been true until this. You are acting as though parents f…

I do not agree with this. Even side hustles have been adversely affected by the pandemic. Quite nearly everything in our lives has been. Parents deserve all the concessions that can be afforded, but people without kids should also be afforded the same. Having children is a personal choice in the end, it's a right, but nothing special in anyway. People should not be penalized for not making that choice, just like they…

Society ultimately needs children to function. At some point it can’t always be a zero sum game where everyone thinks it’s totally fair. People with kids pay less taxes. There is an implicit understanding that children are a burden we bear as a society. I have a hard time being upset with concessions parents need right now when this is ultimately the federal governments fault. They let this fester into what it has become and we are all eating the shit sandwich that followed. 4% of the worlds population and something like 22% of the Corona Virus cases. I would encourage you and all the other single people, purposefully childless, etc to have more empathy. Most parents in competitive fields work insanely hard to keep their kids as their problem and no one else’s, even though children are a requirement for society to function as it is structured now. Parents didn’t choose this pandemic, it’s not something you can plan for. Struggling parents can use a little help, this is an immensely stressful situation. It isn’t fair to everyone and society as a whole has to bear the cost in different ways. It’s not like most parents with previously solid work records in deep work jobs are any happier than non-parents. It’s not some reward they are suddenly getting. Their life is categorically worse even if they get some minor concessions at work.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#716

Post by jelliclesfarm » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 3:18 AM UTC

jdm2212 wrote: post #274

nicbou wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't fully agree with you. Back when I worked in retail or fast food, smokers could step out for a 5 minute smoke break every once in a while. As a non-smoker, I wasn't allowed to just sit there for 5 minutes. At the end of the day, we got paid the same, but smokers got 30 minutes off, courtesy of the non-smokers who picked up the slack. Likewise, parents are excused from work because they have children. I fully a…

Someone has to provide the goods and services you'll consume when you're old. Those people are today's kids, whose parents are doing you a big favor at considerable expense to themselves. Raising children isn't like smoking, a hobby, a side hustle, or other miscellaneous personal obligations. It's more like military service and jury duty -- an essential service that some people perform to ensure that society as we kn…

People should procreate if they want to and not as a service to society. It’s ok. I think we will manage at 8 billion.

You have people who essentially outsourced parenting to have a career and that’s not a ‘sacrifice’. It’s a choice.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#717

Post by dumpsterdiver » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 3:18 AM UTC

biotech wrote: post #389

jbay808 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Edited to clarify my intended meaning) > I'd happily trade places with one of my childless coworkers right about now. For those childless co-workers that wish they could accept the other end of this deal, this phrase is both common and quite painful to hear. Please consider not using it unless you really mean it, which you don't, as you actually wouldn't give up your kids for anything.

Jeez, it's just an expression. They're just saying that it would be way easier to not have to worry about kids at home right now. You're reading way to far into it. They are not saying that they would literally want to trade places, which should be obvious from the statement "I wouldn't give up my kids for anything"

That doesn't change the fact that it's still painful to hear when you're wallowing in misery alone. I second this. Say what you mean.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#718

Post by ipython » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 3:20 AM UTC

frequentnapper wrote: post #512

jdm2212 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone has to provide the goods and services you'll consume when you're old. Those people are today's kids, whose parents are doing you a big favor at considerable expense to themselves. Raising children isn't like smoking, a hobby, a side hustle, or other miscellaneous personal obligations. It's more like military service and jury duty -- an essential service that some people perform to ensure that society as we kn…

>an essential service that some people perform to ensure that society as we know it can continue to exist I empathize with parents, but please don't make it sound like it's a selfless act they are doing for the good of society. Also, childless couples/singles get taxed at quite a high rate (after any returns) vs parents. You compound that over 21 or whatever years it takes for kids to become "productive". Furthermore…

Well, technically, that child you “raised” with your tax money is the one paying your social security benefits when you are older. The SS taxes you are paying now don’t benefit you directly, they pay for current retiree benefits.

As far as being taxed “more” than a couple with kids, yes you do potentially miss out on a tax credit of $2k/year. Going through my food bills I easily spend that much just feeding that child- let’s just call it $5/day. So that child I’m rearing is at best netting me $0, and most likely will never be able to pay me back! So much for my supposed economic advantage!

So no it’s not some selfless act to society. After all nature makes the kid making process somewhat enjoyable and you take immense pride in your offspring. On the other hand the argument that you’re disadvantaged as a non parent because you miss out on a small tax break that, at the end of the day, at most subsidizes the nourishment required for said human to survive, rings hollow.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#719

Post by jelliclesfarm » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 3:21 AM UTC

dcolkitt wrote: post #591

nicbou wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then is it cool if I skip a few meetings to volunteer to help the homeless? We already heavily subsidise child-rearing through taxes and other benefits. As I said elsewhere, there are mechanisms for supporting parents already. If you tried to let any other charitable endeavour take over your work schedule, you wouldn't expect your compensation to remain unaffected. I'm not resentful at parents. It just seems complete…

> We already heavily subsidise child-rearing through taxes and other benefits. The US and most other Western countries run huge budget deficits at essentially zero interest costs. This is only possible because creditors have full faith in the ability of future tax payers to meet debt obligations. In light of that, I’d say the overall balance is that those with children are massively subsidizing the childless.

How do? The childless pay taxes and don’t have subsequent gene pool for society to take care of..

Taxes are perpetual and mandatory. It goes towards subsidizing other people’s genes and then the childless have to be thankful for that.

Let’s not forget the children who grow up to be thugs and criminals. Not every fruit of the loin is a productive member of the society. I find it appalling that after 12 years of subsidied education, they still want free education, housing is a human right and most haven’t even paid off the cost of society paying for them ..never mind paying it forward for the next generation.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#720

Post by rsync » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 3:23 AM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #400

tolbish wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have family or close friends that could look after them for a few days?

The one year old isn’t ready for overnights for a number of reasons. I’m not saying we’re in dire straits here. Being a parent is the most fulfilling thing I’ve ever done. But it’s also the hardest job I’ve ever had. And you can’t wake up and decide to take a me day.

"And you can’t wake up and decide to take a me day."

I encourage you to do exactly that!

Go to your partner and tell them at X day in the near future, you will take all of the children and do everything and they can have the entire day to themselves.

On the day, pretend as if they are on an airplane: don't call them, don't text them ... really do take care of everything yourself. No matter how stressful it is, do not unload any stress or guilt after the day is over.

Next week it's your turn :)

My wife and I each take a full day each week and a 1-2 week "sabbatical" each year. Recommended.