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FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

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Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#161

Post by diggernet »

HumblyTossed wrote: post #146
cactus2093 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like TurboTax is probably not worth the hassle of trying to use for free. They try to steer you at every turn into accidentally accepting the paid features, and if you manage to make it through the maze there doesn't really seem to be much left that makes them better than any of the simpler competitors if you stick to the free tiers - no saving your information year over year, no automatically importing the sup…

> Why doesn't the IRS just have a web app like turbotax for everyone Because capitalism blah blah. The government isn't supposed to compete with businesses.

Providing a web app to interact with the government is rightfully a government job. We should not need a business to act as an intermediary between us and our government. The "FreeFile" agreement should be abandoned, and the IRS (and states) should set up services for everyone to use.

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#162

Post by scott_s »

crispyporkbites wrote: post #149
scott_s wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we know the answer: the IRS is prevented from doing that by law. Lobbied by Intuit. If you google around, you can find stories on it. edit: save_ferris linked to an excellent story below: https://www.propublica.org/article/filing-taxes-could-be-fre...

Ok so I don’t know much about the us legal and political system, but a couple of questions: - why does a judge in a lawsuit get to make the decision here? I.e. why is this kind of law not debated as part of public discourse and a decision made through a democratic path? - given this benefits a tiny fraction of people in the US, why doesn’t a particular party/politician take a stand on it as a policy to win a chunk of…

When it comes to understanding why some politician doesn’t take up an issue as their primary cause, I think it’s not useful to consider what the good-faith debate would look like. That doesn’t happen. Often the untrue things your opponents can accuse you of matter more in the discourse than your stated reasons for supporting an issue. When it comes to taxes and tax policy in the US, those untrue things are vast.

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#163

Post by [deleted] »

cactus2093 wrote: post #122
klmadfejno wrote: post #50

God I hope this suit is successful. Lots of people here are discussing the regulatory trap they've got, and that's a big problem. But the actual problem mentioned in the suit is deceptive marketing. TurboTax is the worst in this regard. Last year, I, at every step of the process, declined the expensive options that say "maybe you'll save more money if you permanently switch into this paid mode". Yet after a couple ho…

Seems like TurboTax is probably not worth the hassle of trying to use for free. They try to steer you at every turn into accidentally accepting the paid features, and if you manage to make it through the maze there doesn't really seem to be much left that makes them better than any of the simpler competitors if you stick to the free tiers - no saving your information year over year, no automatically importing the sup…

[deleted]

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#164

Post by OJFord »

andybak wrote: post #141
oconnor663 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is already clear, but in the US "tax witholding" done by your employer is mandatory for most people. So all the paperwork we do at filing time is just to compute the difference between what was withheld and what you owe.

In the UK that's normally also done for you. Only in exceptional circumstances does a normal waged employee have to have anything to do with taxes. Until I was self-employed in my 30s I never filled out a tax form. Some people never do. You're being swindled in the US.

I don't envy it at all either - but it's also because theirs is so much more complicated that even if you consider it broadly the same principle, far more Americans fall into the needing to self-assess (as we call it) category since, for example, they have 'a whole bunch of deductibles'.

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#165

Post by drtillberg »

crispyporkbites wrote: post #149
scott_s wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we know the answer: the IRS is prevented from doing that by law. Lobbied by Intuit. If you google around, you can find stories on it. edit: save_ferris linked to an excellent story below: https://www.propublica.org/article/filing-taxes-could-be-fre...

Ok so I don’t know much about the us legal and political system, but a couple of questions: - why does a judge in a lawsuit get to make the decision here? I.e. why is this kind of law not debated as part of public discourse and a decision made through a democratic path? - given this benefits a tiny fraction of people in the US, why doesn’t a particular party/politician take a stand on it as a policy to win a chunk of…

> - given this benefits a tiny fraction of people in the US, why doesn’t a particular party/politician take a stand on it as a policy to win a chunk of votes?

Because national politics in the U.S. in 2020 is big business. It's not about votes or public policy, it's about redirecting funds to party coffers, paid consultants, and ideally the office-holders themselves (or at least their advisors, family and friends).

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#167

Post by dlgeek »

bityard wrote: post #156
qppo wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the wrong question too. Why do we have to file a tax return at all? Shouldn't the government be filing a tax return with us instead? Same answer of course.

They answer that in the NPR podcast the parent linked to. But it essentially boils down to the fact that taxes are constitutionally voluntary yet tax evasion is illegal.

Say what now?

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#168

Post by RandoHolmes »

loosescrews wrote: post #137
klmadfejno wrote: post #50

God I hope this suit is successful. Lots of people here are discussing the regulatory trap they've got, and that's a big problem. But the actual problem mentioned in the suit is deceptive marketing. TurboTax is the worst in this regard. Last year, I, at every step of the process, declined the expensive options that say "maybe you'll save more money if you permanently switch into this paid mode". Yet after a couple ho…

I have tried nearly all of the DIY tax offerings out there. CreditKarma has a relatively new completely free offering that I feel rivals TurboTax in ease of use. I also feel that it is superior to paid offerings such as H&R Block. Another completely free offering is freetax.com. I used them for a few years, and while not quite as easy to use, it works well. Note that both of these free offerings include free state ta…

I just pay a CPA. It's worth the cost, they're legally liable if they make a mistake, and they'll keep your records for a minimum of 5 years (you should also be keeping your own records).

Plus, if something wonky does happen, they know what the hell to do.

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#169

Post by kristopolous »

klmadfejno wrote: post #50

God I hope this suit is successful. Lots of people here are discussing the regulatory trap they've got, and that's a big problem. But the actual problem mentioned in the suit is deceptive marketing. TurboTax is the worst in this regard. Last year, I, at every step of the process, declined the expensive options that say "maybe you'll save more money if you permanently switch into this paid mode". Yet after a couple ho…

there's a large number of other providers listed on the IRS's website (ignore the file for free part if you're above the threshold) https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/

I don't want this to turn into a commercial for any particular provider but let's say I've made 6 figures and paid under $20 to file for multiple years now.

How intuit can get away with charging $200 or whatever on the sly and almost nobody knowing about the multiple competitors who run relatively squeaky clean businesses at way more affordable prices should belong as a test-case in every business and marketing book, it's really something.

They're actually far easier to use as well since they aren't employing dozens of sneaky tactics and evil design patterns to try to slide you into the "deluxe pro extreme package" or whatever.

I would be shocked if intuit didn't constantly a/b test how to trick people - that's kinda their business model in the same way that blockbuster could only stay in business with late fees.

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#170

Post by analog31 »

qppo wrote: post #150
neilfrndes wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why doesn't IRS have a web app like Turbotax? Because of great lobbying by Intuit. This planet money episode goes into the details: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/04/03/709656642/epis...

It's the wrong question too. Why do we have to file a tax return at all? Shouldn't the government be filing a tax return with us instead? Same answer of course.

They do anyway. One year, I must have screwed up my return, because I got a letter from the IRS saying: We think you screwed up, here's why, send us X amount, and we're good. Or you can file an amended return.

I sent in X amount. We were good.

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