Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19 • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#241

Post by mattlondon » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:32 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #171

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

> the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. Unpopular opinion: We should not be rewarding or elevating people for having unprotected sex without the support network to take care of their children in the event they are unable to attend school. There's a thousand reasons a child might not be ab…

The point is that COVID removed any support networks that may have been there.

Even the most well-oiled and well-rehearsed routines were blown clear out of the water.

Where before you could rely on family, friends, neighbors, baby sitters, after-school clubs, public transport and so on, you now had ZERO options available. Basically anything - or anyone - outside of your home was no longer an option.

You could be at Bezos or Zuckerberg or Musk levels of wealth, resources, and connections but you'd not be able to get any help at all with your kids during lockdown (...unless you ignore lockdown of course...)

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#242

Post by sulam » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

ng12 wrote: post #147

mc32 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Parents are making sacrifices which benefit society as a whole. Those children the parents are taking care of now will be the ones who will provide for the one complaining now via taxes as well as services rendered to them. If anything, companies should be providing more childcare so that more women (as well as some men) will have less of a burden balancing career and caregiving. I see these people as being…

What I've seen is the complaints are largely coming from couples that want to raise kids while both parents work full time jobs. Asking for fewer hours so you can continue that lifestyle is asking your employer and fellow employees to subsidize your second income, not your ability to have and raise children. My coworkers with SAH spouses aren't feeling the burn anywhere near as badly -- it's just an extended summer f…

Just keep in mind, those people working two full time jobs might be barely making ends meeting in Silicon Valley. Maybe one is a tech writer earning 5-figures and the other is a nurse with a schedule they don't control and that doesn't give them real benefits (this is all too common). They can't afford to quit and now they have to juggle kids, too. Everything worked fine when the kids were in school and they could pay for after school care, but now both of those options have been removed. On top of everything else they also have to figure out how to organize their 3 bedroom place into two classrooms and an office. Oh and for the cherry on top, now you can't even be outside safely without a high quality mask on.

And yes, I'm thinking of a specific couple -- this is not a made up situation.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#243

Post by subsaharancoder » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

burlesona wrote: post #55

This feels like more of an effort to create a story than accurate reporting of what life is like inside tech firms right now. 1. Parents lives have been temporarily turned upside down as almost all childcare disappears. Temporary is turning out to be a long time... but still. 2. Most companies are composed of people of all ages and stages of life which means there are lots of parents. Particularly when you consider m…

> This feels like more of an effort to create a story than accurate reporting of what life is like inside tech firms right now.

This is very true. The genesis of the story is that at one of the FAANGs (I work for one of them) someone posted a question that kind of made it sound as "parents vs single employees" issue, the media (the NYTimes got the ball rolling) have jumped on this and are fanning the flames at a time when many people are tense and worked up over so many other things.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#244

Post by mlady » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

save_ferris wrote: post #10

This is one of the biggest reasons I’ve chosen to forego parenthood. I can’t imagine trying to carve out a solid career in tech while being a parent. I’m sure there are so many here on HN that will say it’s not so hard, but employer expectations have historically been incredibly high at companies I’ve worked for, to the point that sacrificing one’s personal life is pretty much expected (although never explicitly stat…

It all depends on your goals and what you value. Sounds like you value professional advancement and fulfillment over everything, which is fine. Just know that there are companies that exist that stress "work-life balance" and mean it if you're looking to not sacrifice your personal life anymore.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#245

Post by johnjj257 » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

gehsty wrote: post #189

codemac wrote: post #5

Personally, I struggle with these feelings as well. It seems nuts that someone working 50%+ less than someone else is going to keep all the same equity, vacation, and salary. Then again it seems nuts that they don't. All employees who had children or family members to care for before or after COVID get none of the same support. I don't think backpay is coming for those who were forced to take leave or even quit their…

Another way of thinking about it is that we are all likely to have children at some point, so is a phase that a lot of people go through in their careers, you may not feel like they are working as hard as you (and maybe they aren’t) but if you do end up having kids then they will likely be picking up your slack while you are raising your little ones.

That seems silly to just ignore people who don't have kids because "most do". What do you say to the 50 year old with no children? Sucks to be them?

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#246

Post by pnw_hazor » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

treeman79 wrote: post #116

eyesbear wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did your kid like the cat you drew?

Very much

Thanks for sharing the cat sketch bit. It reminded me of some great times.

I am a recent empty nester. I don't like it much.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#247

Post by mitchdoogle » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:34 PM UTC

eanzenberg wrote: post #229

kevstev wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a mid 30s childless man I completely agree. We essentially sent people home on a Friday, told them to figure out a work from home situation, and then they were told welp your kids aren't going to school either, and whatever childcare you had lined up has now vanished too- and this is all happening in the course of a few days at most. So now you have kids to worry about all day, home schooling to oversee, focusing…

How do social services help? The article is about parents with jobs adjusting or continuing to adjust to working from home with kids there. Social services as you listed are primarily for people who aren’t working.

They are saying anyone who supports those things should be willing to tolerate having to do a bit of extra work to make up for those in less ideal situations. Basically, if you talk the talk about the country providing more social goodness, you should walk the walk in your own workplace when it comes to social goodness.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#248

Post by staplers » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:35 PM UTC

orky56 wrote: post #13

codemac wrote: post #5

Personally, I struggle with these feelings as well. It seems nuts that someone working 50%+ less than someone else is going to keep all the same equity, vacation, and salary. Then again it seems nuts that they don't. All employees who had children or family members to care for before or after COVID get none of the same support. I don't think backpay is coming for those who were forced to take leave or even quit their…

Outside of US, people expect the government to provide that safety net. In the US, we expect corporations to provide for health insurance, disposable income, and the tools/resources to focus on work. Meals, soda, and Slack work for early 20s fresh grads but not for parents/caregivers.

To reinforce this idea: Work expenses are only tax-exempt if you are an employer.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#249

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:37 PM UTC

xwdv wrote: post #227

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

I do not agree. I specifically chose not to have children because I knew of the burdens they would place on my career. Those who decided to have children should not get treated any differently. They knew what they were signing up for, they do not get to have things both ways.

[deleted]

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#250

Post by falcolas » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:37 PM UTC

gus_massa wrote: post #223

falcolas wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. Unpopular opinion: We should not be rewarding or elevating people for having unprotected sex without the support network to take care of their children in the event they are unable to attend school. There's a thousand reasons a child might not be ab…

We had a 24 hours electricity outage last week. (Some problem with an electric wire in the whole block after a heavy rain). Should I buy an electricity generator just in case? I expect to be able to send the kids to school, perhaps at least a few hours per day. It is impossible now. An in case the school is not working, I can send them with one of the grandmas or the other. But we are currently in the peak of the pan…

Glad to hear you're taking responsibility for your life choices in this time of hardship. But... that's what you signed up for when you made the decision to have a child.

I guess the question is: Do you believe that you should receive benefits above and beyond those of childless adults because of your life choices? That the act of becoming a parent is so sacred it should grant you benefits in otherwise unrelated areas of your life?