Couldn’t have said it better myself: “Epic’s lawsuit is nothing more than a basic disagreement over money,” Apple said in its filing Tuesday. “Although Epic portrays itself as a modern corporate Robin Hood, in reality it is a multi-billion dollar enterprise that simply wants to pay nothing for the tremendous value it derives from the App Store.”
Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages
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Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages
#82Epic is a company that reserves the right to sell your data for marketing purposes, says so in their privacy policy.
Remember that on Android they first tried to workaround Google Play's limitations by distributing Fortnite outside the store. They caved later. So this isn't about having no ability to distribute Fortnite, rather it's about them wanting easy distribution without paying the tax that everyone else is paying.
I dislike Apple's walled garden approach very much, but on the other hand it's their app store and this is still capitalism. If you don't like it, as a consumer, buy another brand, and as a developer, avoid developing for Apple. Develop for Android, develop for the open web. Voting with your wallet still works, the problem being, of course, that Apple fans are happy with the current arrangement.
And seriously, I can't side with a company willing to sell people's data for marketing purposes. Sorry.
Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
That something is written on a contract does not means that is enforceable. If not I will create a contract that says you are now the president and you will still not be.
Apple’s contract is completely normal though. Resale distribution channels for locked in platforms aren’t new: Ticketmaster, PlayStation, Nintendo, Xbox, etc The only difference is people want to change the rules because they feel Apple (and Google) have won the game forever and App Stores should now be regulated like utilities.
The analogy with videogame console is i think the best one. I hate Apple rules on the app store, but i’ve always wondered if they hadn’t just copied the gaming console business models.
Which makes me wonder : is there any way to distribute your own game to playstation users, without having to ask or pay anything to sony ?
Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
> just charge them for development tools Thing is, Apple still charges $100 USD per year for a developer license which lets you distribute your app, so this is already happening! :)
Even worse. $100 is for individual developers, it’s $299 per year for organizations. Google asks for $25, once, for a team that can be an individual or an organization, as you wish.
Even wor... really?
That is less than the coffee bean budget for a month at most of these organizations. They probably spend more than that a year on parts and labor for the coffee equipment.
That organization fee is a token fee. A little friction so that it makes you serious and it stings a bit if it gets cancelled. To maybe not faff about and get down to shipping a product. A few bucks to cover things like CA maintenance and help fund some outreach programs I suspect.
$100 for individuals might be a bit on the steep side, I'll grant you. Or a stick to get you to become an organization as soon as possible.
Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages
#85Apple writes in their court filing: “Epic sought to enjoy all of the benefits of Apple’s iOS platform and related services while its ‘hotfix’ lined Epic’s pockets at Apple’s expense.” It seems that Apple has forgotten that each iPhone user already paid Apple hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars for the iPhone itself. It is reasonable to charge developers for development tools, but if that's what you want to do, jus…
What does user paying have to do with Epic lining their pockets with this move?
Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages
#86> it is a multi-billion dollar enterprise that simply wants to pay nothing for the tremendous value it derives from the App Store. Half true. EPIC doesn't really get any value from the App Store except data delivery, which they're more than willing to do themselves. Fortnite is popular enough that the app discovery part of the store is meaningless.
The Apple platform is more than just the AppStore.
Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I saw this counter argument before, and I wonder the same thing, but does intellectual consistency matter much in the court of law?
It does if you’re about to declare things that have existed for decades with no problem as suddenly Anticompetitive or illegal.
Things literally do go from fine to anti-competitive or illegal over time, because context matters and both laws and circumstances change.
In one case, the US fought a whole war over something that was previously legal for decades!
Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages
#88Well, it certainly seems clear from a facts point of view at least, that Epic was engineering the plan to test Apple. They prepared a release that contained the ability to bypass the payment mechanism. Then they did that, and told Apple that was what they were doing. And then launched a big marketing campaign to rally support for it. At least in facts, this wasn't a sudden action by Apple to crush an unsuspecting lit…
Epic’s big mistake was assuming that enough consumers care. Certainly Fortnite is popular, but it’s not popular with a large enough percentage of the entire iOS market to support that kind of action.
Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry to flatly contradict you, but the size of Apple’s cut is not at all controversial. It has never been a crime to be expensive. The legal controversy is that Apple prohibit apps from advertising, linking to, or even mentioning that external account management/payment/service sign-up options are available. This forces vendors to become complicit in misleading the consumer about their options, an anti-competitive p…
Do you think that I can put "Cheaper on www.mysite.com" in my amazon description? Why would it be controversial to prohibit someone from advertising a competing service on your platform?
You’re mistaking the platform for the product.
I bought an item through Amazon recently and it did come with a bunch of materials inviting me to visit the manufacturer’s website.
I bought an app through the App Store and it is prohibited from inviting me to visit the vendor’s website.
In contrast, I bought a MMORPG through the PlayStation store and the first thing it did was direct me to the maker's account sign-up.
Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages
#90Apple writes in their court filing: “Epic sought to enjoy all of the benefits of Apple’s iOS platform and related services while its ‘hotfix’ lined Epic’s pockets at Apple’s expense.” It seems that Apple has forgotten that each iPhone user already paid Apple hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars for the iPhone itself. It is reasonable to charge developers for development tools, but if that's what you want to do, jus…
> If it costs money to develop a platform, it doesn't seem that strange to just charge that upfront when someone buys an iPhone.
Epic runs their own digital distribution platform, in which they also take a cut of the sales. Their terms are different than Apples, but they still do take a cut of sales.
Epic also takes 5% royalties for any (non-free) game built with Epic's Unreal Engine.
Epic and Apple have the same business model, however Epic's terms are not as high as Apples.
On the other hand, Epic makes a lot of money selling "cosmetics" and loot boxes. In effect, you have a company that has profited immensely from gambling, going after a company that has profited immensely due to their own closed ecosystem.
(also not to mention Epic blatantly ripped off the success of PUBG when they switched Fortnite to be a Battle Royale game)