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Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu

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Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#491

Post by thelastname »

murgindrag wrote: post #411
9HZZRfNlpR wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

O guess these things also depend on country, in Eastern Europe where I'm from many high position successful women leaders have stated that gender quotas are actually offensive and they wouldn't want to be so called diversity hire. I think about it often how Americans who get into somewhere because of their knowledge and skill but are part of some minority think affirmative action (discrimination for us), it would be…

On the whole, Eastern Europe seems to have done much better with gender equity than the US. (That's a relative comparison)

What is scary is that american gender stereotypes are becoming popular. In my school times I never heard "girls have problem with math", on the contrary, the majority of math and science teachers were women. Eastern Europe is unique because we never really had our own petty bourgeois being effectively colonized, so farmers became workers and workers became bankers. Someone really should write a monograph about Eastern European Cooperative Banking, it's quite amazing.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#492

Post by ipiz0618 »

The pronunciation is very common in Cantonese, Mandarin, and Korean. If the offended person ever visits Asia, he'd find himself punching literally every person. This is extremely arrogant and disrespectful of other cultures. It's even more bizarre that the college takes the report seriously.

For instance, listen to this (once extremely popular) song - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6QA3m58DQw

No reasonable person would, or should be offended. I hope that person never leaves his/her English speaking community.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#493

Post by csomar »

DuskStar wrote: post #479
csomar wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did some Chinese courses last year and "na ge" is something that will get repeated frequently because of how Chinese make their sentences. There is another one "nei ge". They are an important part of the Chinese language. Edit: just watched the video. He was not teaching a chinese course. A bit of a suspicious example he picked if you ask me.

On the other hand, if you're an African American doing a business deal in China, it is also almost certainly the best example, and might genuinely be the most valuable thing that you take away from that class. Specifically, "sometimes people speaking Mandarin say something that sounds like 'ni__er'. It is not actually 'ni__er', and is completely unrelated to my race." That could easily be the difference between "deal…

The filler word is "nei ge" and not "neh gah". The "ge" is pronounced as "gue" and "nei" like "ney". But it might have been a totally innocent mistake.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#494

Post by marcus_holmes »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #305
geofft wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, the point of the university today is to provide a service for paying customers. When you see a job posting that says that a bachelor's degree in such-and-such field is required, the employer is hardly asking to get candidates who have spent four years freely discussing ideas like they're one of the figures in The School of Athens ; they're asking to get candidates who know certain things and have experience…

(Slight correction, this is an MBA class, not undergrad.) This decision doesn't even make sense from the perspective of vocational training. Being able to hear 那个 without great pain and upset is a directly job-applicable communication tool - there are many jobs working with Mandarin speakers that students won't be able to handle if the word traumatizes them.

It almost makes more sense as an MBA class: How to respond to accusations of racial insensitivy 101.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#495

Post by xpaqui »

neonate wrote: post #244
Yetanfou wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how those who want to find the cause of their failure in other people's success eventually deal with the fact that Nigerian immigrants into the USA are far more successful compared to African Americans while they are visually indistinguishable from them. Will the Nigerians be accused of having some form of privilege? Will they be called 'white' just like Asians are now often considered to be 'white'? Will sa…

It's not so hard to understand. The issue is the legacy of slavery, and Nigerian immigrants aren't dealing with that.

This offhand reason does not happen regularly. There are cases of places without historical slavery who perceived as poor workers and places with historical slavery who are known for their work ethics.

Maybe it's not only "the legacy of slavery".

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#496

Post by joubert »

apexalpha wrote: post #188
prerok wrote: post #42

Some time ago a fellow countryman, a basketball player, made it into NBA. After a controversial ruling by a judge that one of his teammates performed a foul, he kept yelling "ni ga, ni ga, ni ga". Contextually translated, he meant "he hadn't touched him". He had to apologize profusely and explain to no end what he meant. Regardless, his career was soon over after that. We, non-native speakers, must be really careful…

>We, non-native speakers, must be really careful about using words in our own language that may sound offensive in the other language. What a world we created :( And it's in English as well. Growing up in Europe but heavily influenced by American Music, Movies, TV and Internet one grows up thinking that N----- or Nigga is fine to use. You hear it all the time, especially in music. Couple that with the fact that we do…

> You can't even say the word as part of a debate over the word.

The Wikipedia entry explains the historical context of why the word is so extremely painful - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger

One way to think about it is that there's almost no context where it would be constructive for a non-Black person to use the word (including singing a song, for example). Why? Because there is not a way to neutralize the emotion and history behind the word in any context. That's why the n-word euphemism was created and is the norm. It provides an acceptable replacement. When someone violates this norm, it creates resentment, intense frustration, and great offense for a large group.

> A while back a Dutch coach was forced to resign after using the word because it was in a song: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/feb/18/fc-cincinna.... > The fact that you aren't even allowed to sing along with a song without muting yourself on certain words that the singer sings anyway... it's just mind boggling to me...

From the article (emphasis mine): "Jans is alleged to have used the slur while singing along to a track being played in the Cincinnati locker room. A player is understood to have told Jans, who is Dutch, about the significance of the n-word in America. Jans is also understood to have made an inappropriate remark about slavery during a team visit to memorials in Washington DC in October.

I do not know what the details are around "inappropriate remark about slavery", but if I was a player (esp. a black player), I would find it difficult to respect that coach.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#497

Post by gvjddbnvdrbv »

neonate wrote: post #244
Yetanfou wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how those who want to find the cause of their failure in other people's success eventually deal with the fact that Nigerian immigrants into the USA are far more successful compared to African Americans while they are visually indistinguishable from them. Will the Nigerians be accused of having some form of privilege? Will they be called 'white' just like Asians are now often considered to be 'white'? Will sa…

It's not so hard to understand. The issue is the legacy of slavery, and Nigerian immigrants aren't dealing with that.

Doesn't Nigeria still have lots of slavery?

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#498

Post by joubert »

pixel_fcker wrote: post #392
frereubu wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the way I understand microaggressions, which aren't to do with whether someone is offended or not. The idea is that if, for example, you're black, and day in, day out, there are lots of little things that on their own aren't worth being upset about (for example, people not holding the door for you, pushing in front of you in line, crossing the road rather than walk past you, assume you're low-level staff r…

From Wikipedia: > Microaggression is a term used for brief and commonplace daily verbal or behavioural indignities, whether intentional or unintentional It’s the unintentional part that I take issue with, which means that it’s not on you to understand the context of my statement, it’s on me to imagine the infinite variety of ways you might interpret my statement and vet them for possible insensitivity before making i…

> It’s the unintentional part that I take issue with, which means that it’s not on you to understand the context of my statement, it’s on me to imagine the infinite variety of ways you might interpret my statement and vet them for possible insensitivity before making it, which is obviously impossible.

I don't know that that is the only way to interpret how to behave.

Another way to think about it is simply to be aware that a colleague or friend from the non-dominant group (e.g. a woman, a Romani person in Germany, a Spanish speaker in the USA) experience many things every day that makes them feel less worthy, less welcome, on the outs so to speak, not because of the content of their mind and heart, but because of the group they were born into (I can give countless examples I've heard from friends & colleagues, if you're curious).

Now that you and I have that awareness, we can decide whether and how we can be supportive and add to that load. It could even be as simple as acknowledging when I see it.

Maybe if you can imagine that this is your significant other or child - what would you want for them?

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#499

Post by joubert »

least wrote: post #403
shajznnckfke wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the speakers knows they are causing offense by using a word that was used to subjugate slaves, it starts to look like an extension of that racial subjugation. The word was used by speakers of a different language, and didn’t historically have the same meaning in Norway. But given the increased cultural and economic integration present in modern society, we all have to become a little bit aware of issues that are a…

I think "cultural prohibition" of words is generally bad, extending to words that are forbidden in the US. The idea of "privileged words" that only a subset of people can utter is ridiculous to me. It's particularly egregious when it is essentially American imperialism on language used in other countries. > To answer your question more directly: The onus is mostly on the people who were subjugated to continue sufferi…

> The idea of "privileged words" that only a subset of people can utter is ridiculous to me.

This comment made me stop to think. Thanks for that.

When I zoom out and try to generalize, I think:

- "can utter": it is not so much about what you can officially say or not say, but rather what is socially acceptable, whatever your social context is. For example, if you're a priest, saying "fuck" in a sermon would probably be frowned upon or worse. Even more so if they continued to do so even after being told by their congregation or colleagues that it is not acceptable.

- "privileged words": I don't have children, but I suspect there are words that parents (and "society") prefer their kids don't say and even reprimand them for it. Whether or not that restriction is a bad thing (limiting free speech?) I cannot say for sure yet, but it seems that privileged words, as you say it, emerge. I haven't thought more about other examples beyond children (maybe there aren't any) or whether the children example is invalid.

Re: Professor suspended for saying 那个 nà ge

#500

Post by asddubs »

ci5er wrote: post #369
asddubs wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, when I hear someone use that word, I do assume it's primarily in service of saying something that sounds like the n-word with plausible deniability. It'd be something else if it was a commonly used word

IMHO - you would be wrong. It is a perfectly good word. This horse-shit has to stop.

I don't know, you can tell that some people definitely like to play a verbal version of the "I'm not touching you" game, or get off on telling people "actually, it's not a slur". Obviously I'm not referring to what happened to this professor, though
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