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'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

reason.com

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Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think the Daily Caller shouldn’t be allowed to film and report?

“Allowed” to report? When did we get into the topic of government interference with the press? This is about what private citizen protesters do. But I suppose if you were concerned with government interference in the media you’d be going after the fascist who has been crying “Lügenpresse” for the past four years—who also wants to silence criticism of himself on social media by executive fiat.

Oh, I wasn’t talking about government interference.

I asked if you thought they should be allowed. And somewhat if protesters should allow members of the press they don’t approve of to record and report on them.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently @alex_zee is no objective observer and has participated in disinformation. https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1300617725354504192

This Andy Ngo? https://www.salon.com/2019/08/28/right-wing-journalist-andy-...

He was considered left-wing until he dared to report what he saw, refusing to censor it for the benefit of Antifa. That sounds like a reputable journalist to me.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#313

The mainstream reporting was so bad I just started looking on Twitter. I found both pro- and anti-"protest" accounts with video. Even the pro-protest account videos debunk the narrative that these are peaceful African-American protestors. Whenever one lets the mask slip or shows her hands or hair, it's a young white person. These are night time riots, plain and simple. Surveillance footage released by law enforcement…

"At this point, these Antifa people (who "don't exist," yet all show up at the same time and place in a uniform" What uniform is that? Wearing black and a mask? That could be anyone , including police provocateurs and right-wingers looking to pin the blame on protestors on the left. It's ironic that so many people who weren't there, don't know anyone there -- least of all any of the people "in uniform" -- fancy thems…

> Wearing black and a mask? That could be anyone, including police provocateurs and right-wingers looking to pin the blame on protestors on the left.

It could be, and yet they chant "death to America," "down with fascism," etc. There have been scores arrested at this point. The facts tend to support Antifa with zero/few right-wing groups even nearby.

> Just for the record, I strongly condemn violence both on the right and on the left. I do this on ethical grounds, because I believe violence is wrong. But even on merely practical grounds, it's clear that those who encourage and engage in violence are playing right in to the hands of those who have the most guns, who think they have the support of the military and the police, and who are itching for violence to break out to use as an excuse to crack down hard or foment a civil war (which, of course, they think they'll win).

I 100% endorse this. I think the number of people on the right who want a civil war is extremely low (seems mostly confined to the actual Nazis who everyone hates). There are plenty who believe a civil war would be easy to win against Antifa-at-scale, but they don't realize the difficulty in organizing and coordinating actual operations when they'd be denied communications.

I'd even go so far as to say that these militia groups need to leave, even if they have a right to be where they are. The people like the Kenosha kid need to leave and not attend, even if asked. Yes, buildings will be destroyed, people will get hurt and lose their livelihoods and even their lives. That should rest on the consciences (or lack thereof) of the rioters and the political leaders who enable them. But if the right wing groups stayed the hell away, sooner or later, the leftist groups would burn everything down and go after one another. I still think that's a tragedy of meaninglessness, but at least most of the survivors would just go home back to mommy's basement and we could have peace. And then maybe we could actually get some real reform?

For moral, political, practical, and a host of others, everyone should stay the hell away from these things. It doesn't work out at all. But I think a lot of these people are basically very dedicated LARPers, on both sides. I haven't seen too many Army or Marine infantry with beer bellies hanging over their belts, but quite a few militia guys seem to. I've also never seen a successful revolution carried out by people who seem about as clueless about any sort of tactics beyond being an angry mob as the Antifa people. Angry mobs and beer belly dudes with guns can make some damage, but are no match for actual organized and trained military force.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#314
post #19

The mainstream news reporting on Portland (and other regional rioting) got to the point where they were bald-faced lying about peaceful protests standing in front of burning buildings. The most charitable interpretation I can think of is that these professional journalists think that their readers can’t understand a nuanced world of gray and need everything reduced to black and white. There can be a concept of “BLM”…

> The PR / social media contingent that supports the riots is frankly impressive.

Would you say they're organised "organically" or are they well organised and funded, as if there's big money backing these riots?

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#315
post #111
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is reason.com being authoritarian here? How is antifa intimidating and attacking political dissenters not closer to a truer authoritarian accusation? I’m not sure where the “antifa is not violent” gaslighting is stemming from, but there’s a tremendous amount of YouTube footage that anyone can objectively discern from what a violent group of people looks like. The violence is not just them, it’s also right wing ag…

The first problem is when people try to treat antifa as an organization rather than as a loose ideology that is supported by groups across a wide spectrum, and then tries to use that to assign guilt by correlation. E.g. the original antifa was set up by the KPD (pre-war German communist party), but many modern antifa groups use logos that incorporates symbols that were used by the SPD to explicitly attack the KPD and…

The original antifa and that modern antifa have a lot in common. They share the name, symbols, violence, and ideology. The original antifa was so awful that it made people want Hitler. The modern antifa might achieve a similar accomplishment.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#316
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacker culture isn't the entire field of programming. Facebook, Youtube and Twitter are some of the largest businesses in the world and they are also free services. I would bet that the majority of people who code or design software find hacker culture, to be silly. The most read and shared news websites are anti-protest on Facebook. [1] With the President and many politicians supporting the killing in in Kenosha, cl…

> Hacker culture isn't the entire field of programming. > > Facebook, Youtube and Twitter are some of the largest businesses in the world and they are also free services. > > I would bet that the majority of people who code or design software find hacker culture, to be silly. I get what you're saying. And yet Facebook HQ's physical address is 1 Hacker Way. Not 1 Big Business Way, nor 1 Status Quo Way, nor 1 Software…

Lots of people support the killing. When you look into the background of the 3 people shot, the reasons become obvious. The first person shot had attacked boys aged 9 to 11, raping 2 and molesting 3 others. The second person shot had a history of abusive relationships, including strangulation. The third person shot (surviving) was a burglar. That's 3 out of 3 being horrible people. Hitting a criminal in that crowd is like hitting a tree in a forest.

Remember that many people feel that a pedophile rapist should get the death penalty. They are offended by the fact that he was out on the streets of Kenosha chasing a boy. Some people, probably fewer, feel the same about the woman abuser. It is a common viewpoint that justice was served.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#317
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first problem is when people try to treat antifa as an organization rather than as a loose ideology that is supported by groups across a wide spectrum, and then tries to use that to assign guilt by correlation. E.g. the original antifa was set up by the KPD (pre-war German communist party), but many modern antifa groups use logos that incorporates symbols that were used by the SPD to explicitly attack the KPD and…

Names are important. If you wanted to start a club, and you called this club the Ku Klux Klan, people would assume you were a bunch of racists, even if you insisted you totally weren't. Even if, in reality, you actually weren't. "Antifa" is a bad name to choose if you don't want people to assume you're a bunch of communists, just like "Ku Klux Klan" is a bad name to choose if you don't want people to assume you're a…

Antifa has been far more diverse than that for decades before most people had heard about them.

There's now a massive amount of attempts to pretend they're a unified organisation with a single ideology that is almost exclusively coming from people wanting to discredit anti-fascism in general, who don't care at all that the image of antifa they're trying to push has very little to do with reality.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#318
post #315
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first problem is when people try to treat antifa as an organization rather than as a loose ideology that is supported by groups across a wide spectrum, and then tries to use that to assign guilt by correlation. E.g. the original antifa was set up by the KPD (pre-war German communist party), but many modern antifa groups use logos that incorporates symbols that were used by the SPD to explicitly attack the KPD and…

The original antifa and that modern antifa have a lot in common. They share the name, symbols, violence, and ideology. The original antifa was so awful that it made people want Hitler. The modern antifa might achieve a similar accomplishment.

> The original antifa and that modern antifa have a lot in common. They share the name, symbols, violence, and ideology

And yet a whole lot of antifa, uses symbols that were inherently opposed to the founders of the original Antifa, such as the three diagnonal arrows. And their symbols go across a massive range of symbolism of which a substantial proportion has no connection to the original AFA either.

You're demonstrating exactly the kind of attempt to conflate a whole range of groups with almost nothing in common by making things up about them. When I looked into antifa symbols a while back, I found many dozens of symbols that had no connection to the original AFA at all, but had links to all kinds of other movements. Their ideologies are similarly varied.

Already the "original" of the modern antifa explicitly used symbolism, through incorporating black for anarchism, that stood in direct opposition to the views of the KPD who founded the original.

The only thing they have in common is opposition to fascism. Everything else varies along multiple axes, and suggesting they all "have a lot in common" comes across as flatly ignoring the evidence.

> The original antifa was so awful that it made people want Hitler.

This is just pure fiction.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#320

Happened to a reporter on the Key bridge in DC. https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1300857489559375877 EDIT: apparently "You're not allowed to Post" also applies

The Daily Caller has been managed by Tucker Carlson, who attacks protesters on the air virtually every day. The Daily Caller is known for right-wing troll articles. There’s no chance in hell that this publication would ever portray protesters favorably.

This isn't true. The Daily Caller defends the fundamental right to protest. This piece from their Co-Founder lays that out clearly: https://dailycaller.com/2020/07/09/neil-patel-is-america-goo...

They do, however, make a distinction between peaceful protest and violent rioting/looting. They expose corporate media's lies: https://dailycaller.com/2020/07/12/examples-media-claiming-p...

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