'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland • Hacker News Board

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#291

Post by ryani » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 7:53 PM UTC

Simulacra wrote: post #282

blurbleblurble wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He even said he'd send armed personnel to watch the polls :(

Would you prefer he send the Black Panthers? https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/black-panthers-georgia-pic...

Did you even read the article you linked? It states directly that there is no evidence that people pictured approached polling places nor voters. They were photographed at a political rally for their own group, and like many 2nd amendment focused political groups, open-carried at their own rally.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#292

Post by gridlockd » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 8:08 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #244

gridlockd wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree on that point, but that doesn't necessarily matter to public perception. The general public isn't particularly educated on how exactly Marxism might be defined in a textbook. Rather, in terms of public perception, Marxism is probably best defined as "a bunch of loony leftist ideas". Some of these demands fit that bill perfectly. Secondly, many BLM protestors are clearly brandishing symbols that are…

>Rather, in terms of public perception, Marxism is probably best defined as "a bunch of loony leftist ideas". Some of these demands fit that bill perfectly. The public has been effectively propagandized and made to turn against one another rather than a corrupt system. If you accept the thesis that endemic racism and corruption in the American justice system exists, that the reason for the anger behind these riots an…

Well, what can I say? Branding matters. Associations matter. If you don't agree that the US should be a white anglosaxon ethnostate, can't you at least agree with the Nazis that there should be immigration reform?

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#293

Post by krapp » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 8:19 PM UTC

gridlockd wrote: post #292

krapp wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Rather, in terms of public perception, Marxism is probably best defined as "a bunch of loony leftist ideas". Some of these demands fit that bill perfectly. The public has been effectively propagandized and made to turn against one another rather than a corrupt system. If you accept the thesis that endemic racism and corruption in the American justice system exists, that the reason for the anger behind these riots an…

Well, what can I say? Branding matters. Associations matter. If you don't agree that the US should be a white anglosaxon ethnostate, can't you at least agree with the Nazis that there should be immigration reform?

Except the only people branding BLM as Marxist extremists are their opponents, whereas the Nazis were actually Nazis.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#294

Post by collective-intl » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 8:21 PM UTC

It's upsetting that this article is flagged. Is there no room for discussion of alternative views? Censorship is not the answer.

Funnily enough, it may actually harm the BLM movement. If there is no push back on protesters, they can keep escalating without fearing any consequences.

Ultimately, protests will get so big it will be impossible to censor them into a positive narrative.

In a couple months, say by Nov. 3rd, the protests could be so out of control as to tip the election. You're making your own bed.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#295

Post by someguydave » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 8:23 PM UTC

rudiv wrote: post #249

someguydave wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They only go to jail if they are judged to have committed crimes in court. I wonder if antifa gives similar due process rights to the people it accuses and attacks?

Are you under the impression that due process (in terms of the US legal doctrine) is applicable to anyone but US state and federal governments?

are you saying court doesn’t exist?

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#296

Post by someguydave » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 8:27 PM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #254

someguydave wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They only go to jail if they are judged to have committed crimes in court. I wonder if antifa gives similar due process rights to the people it accuses and attacks?

"They only go to jail if they are judged to have committed crimes in court." Not true. Plenty of people in jail have not been found guilty of anything and are there waiting their day in court. That could go on for months or even years. That's not to mention people dying in police custody, and the fact that some people's lives and reputation could be ruined by the mere accusation of a crime.

Fair enough - the system isn’t perfect; however there is no perfect system this side of heaven. I’m open to many kinds of reforms of the criminal justice system. The important thing to realize is that there are only trade-offs, no perfect answers.

Still, defendants still have rights and get due process in court. It is not reasonable to jettison all of that because sometimes we don’t like the outcomes.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#297

Post by burfog » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 8:40 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #283

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're assuming the "real" ideological position of a black Marxist starting a black advocacy movement protesting police violence against black people is actually Marxism, whereas the actual evidence from her own mouth is that the "real" ideological position is the black advocacy. Actually, I’m suspecting that the “real” ideological position of the BLM organization is both an end to police-on-black violence and cert…

>Actually, I’m suspecting that the “real” ideological position of the BLM organization is both an end to police-on-black violence and certain extreme economic-socio-political goals, except that its leadership tries to keep the latter aims quiet. You're talking about a hypothetical, as-yet unrealized (and possibly unfounded) form of BLM in the future. As mentioned earlier, BLM supporters protesting on the ground likel…

Right on that web page:

"We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable."

If you don't like the Marxist label, we can call it Soviet. The exact type of anti-family ideology isn't worth arguing over.

Encouragement of fatherless homes isn't going to make life better. You can see it even in the word choice when they say "mothers, parents" instead of "mothers, fathers". They can't even bring themselves to say the word!

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#298

Post by baryphonic » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 8:51 PM UTC

Jonnax wrote: post #202

baryphonic wrote: post #160

The mainstream reporting was so bad I just started looking on Twitter. I found both pro- and anti-"protest" accounts with video. Even the pro-protest account videos debunk the narrative that these are peaceful African-American protestors. Whenever one lets the mask slip or shows her hands or hair, it's a young white person. These are night time riots, plain and simple. Surveillance footage released by law enforcement…

Hacker culture isn't the entire field of programming. Facebook, Youtube and Twitter are some of the largest businesses in the world and they are also free services. I would bet that the majority of people who code or design software find hacker culture, to be silly. The most read and shared news websites are anti-protest on Facebook. [1] With the President and many politicians supporting the killing in in Kenosha, cl…

> Hacker culture isn't the entire field of programming. > > Facebook, Youtube and Twitter are some of the largest businesses in the world and they are also free services. > > I would bet that the majority of people who code or design software find hacker culture, to be silly.

I get what you're saying. And yet Facebook HQ's physical address is 1 Hacker Way. Not 1 Big Business Way, nor 1 Status Quo Way, nor 1 Software Engineer Way. Hacker Way. Google used to speak about allowing the whole world to access information with ease, including projects like making libraries accessible.

Clearly Facebook and Google at least identify themselves with hacker culture. I'm not sure if Twitter ever professed any sort of noble goals, though it's a dwarf compared to the other two.

> With the President and many politicians supporting the killing in in Kenosha, clearly a portion of those in power support it.

I'm not sure I'd say anyone supports the killing. I personally think it was a big mistake for that kid to go there, regardless of whether he has the right to. It was a bad decision, and led to a tragic situation where there were no winners. That said, he's not a murderer; if anything, the mob was coming after him (guns firing in multiple cases) to kill him.

I also question the de facto power that the president has when the press really is able to control when and how he says what he says. And the press's lies seem to be getting more absurd and brazen. (The personality of the current president does him no favors. It's a negative, in fact.) He holds de jure power, but given his inability to pull 2000 troops from Syria or drop charges against his former National Security Adviser, his legal authority seems like the Queen's royal prerogatives++. The press and entertainment industries, the universities and the bureaucracy seem to hold fragments of power both legally and in the culture, which makes the de jure power a bit weak.

> There are alternative news sites, forums and even social media. Nobody is locked to these sites, except for an entitlement to an audience.

Twitter and Facebook have strong network effects, which effectively does lock people in. YouTube's are much weaker, which is why I suspect decentralized video will be the first decentralized service if they can get some legal kinks worked out. (There's also a legal argument about monopoly common carriers, even at common law, and how they shouldn't terminate service unless the law is violated.) However, even if we accepted that these were competitive, this kind of competition can only exist when we at least have some level of order and security. The reason.com article seems to indicate how we do not have that kind of basic stability.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#299

Post by watwut » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 8:56 PM UTC

josteink wrote: post #72

sneak wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The mainstream news reporting on Portland (and other regional rioting) got to the point where they were bald-faced lying about peaceful protests standing in front of burning buildings. It’s a little bit cliche, but also true: to judge a protest by its most violent elements but to decline to do the same of the police is the language of the oppressor. Everyone I saw celebrating 100 days was celebrating 100 days of su…

> considering the sustained months of police violence that have been inflicted upon them illegally What part about the police stopping a violent riot which has been going on for months to end is illegal? I realize it depends on who you ask these days, but to me it sounds like they are doing their job , to ensure law and order.

I mean, the protests did not stopped and generally got worst. The situation was not calming down over time.

And not just that, people died due to conflicting groups comming in and cops failed to stop them but before and after killing.

If someone was ensuring law and order, that someone completely failed.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#300

Post by youareostriches » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 9:24 PM UTC

prepend wrote: post #116

youareostriches wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Daily Caller has been managed by Tucker Carlson, who attacks protesters on the air virtually every day. The Daily Caller is known for right-wing troll articles. There’s no chance in hell that this publication would ever portray protesters favorably.

Do you think the Daily Caller shouldn’t be allowed to film and report?

“Allowed” to report? When did we get into the topic of government interference with the press? This is about what private citizen protesters do.

But I suppose if you were concerned with government interference in the media you’d be going after the fascist who has been crying “Lügenpresse” for the past four years—who also wants to silence criticism of himself on social media by executive fiat.