Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn

#91

Post by rsynnott » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 9:45 PM UTC

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #32

juniper_strong wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Germans had that delusion too.

The Germans were well aware of Russia's population at the time. In the 1930s, the Germans produced a huge amount of areal-studies scholarship with regard to the USSR (demographics, ethnography, history, linguistics, etc.). Even today scholars occasionally rely on those papers and monographs, as distasteful as a publication produced under the Nazi regime might be. No, the Germans’ delusion was that these many tens of…

They also had a massively exaggerated view of the Soviet leadership’s and system’s incompetence, likely driven by their racial theories.

Re: Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn

#92

Post by krapp » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 9:45 PM UTC

SomeoneFromCA wrote: post #86

fabatka wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why the downvotes, I think this is almost a tautology. My perception is that Biden is just as "mainstream" as the previous opponent of Trump was - hence the slower decline of Trump's approval despite the president's performance.

Well at least he doesn't not call the working clas "deplorables". Michael Moore has a very good comment on why Trump won in 2016, and why he still has a chance in 2020. Overall, Trump's performance up till COVID was okay, but he mishandled the pandemics terribly. Biden will win only because of this. Other than that Biden is boring bland candidate.

Hillary Clinton didn't call the working class deplorables.

Here are her words, verbatim:

    “You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s 
    supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?” 

    “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. 
    And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.”

As you can read, the "basket of deplorables" refers to "about half of Trump's supporters" who she considers "“The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it."

Now one can argue that she was wrong about the fraction of Trump's supporters who fit this archetype, but she did also call her own comment "grossly generalistic," so she wasn't trying to be precise and make a statement about literally 50% of Trump supporters.

The only way someone can interpret this as referring to the entire working class is if, 1) they simply drink the Trumpist Kool-Aid without bothering to research because Screechy Woman Bad, or 2) they believe the entire working class comprises about half of Trump supporters, all of whom are racist, sexist, homophobic and xenophobic.

And Biden being boring shouldn't be a negative. The Presidency isn't supposed to be entertainment, it's a political office in a bureaucracy.

Re: Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn

#93

Post by WarOnPrivacy » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 9:47 PM UTC

spamizbad wrote: post #28

jwilber wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious why the onus is on journalists and not complacent political parties or branches/members of government. Sure, newsrooms can sway public opinion, but they’re also basically the only reason we know about those problems to begin with. Blaming them seems akin to treating a symptom, not the cause. Not trying to disagree. I do think journalists today are partially responsible for our current situation - especially W…

Also thinking journalists are at the root of society's ills is probably a sign you're buying into authoritarian propaganda.

Authoritarian propaganda alleges that journalists are fabricating news.

I'm not alleging fraud but neglect and passive collusion. That is, journalists are allowing certain US Gov misdeeds to go largely unreported while amplifying US Gov voices w/o ever vetting if official claims are true.

Re: Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn

#94

Post by SomeoneFromCA » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 9:57 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #92

SomeoneFromCA wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well at least he doesn't not call the working clas "deplorables". Michael Moore has a very good comment on why Trump won in 2016, and why he still has a chance in 2020. Overall, Trump's performance up till COVID was okay, but he mishandled the pandemics terribly. Biden will win only because of this. Other than that Biden is boring bland candidate.

Hillary Clinton didn't call the working class deplorables. Here are her words, verbatim: “You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?” “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.” As you can read, the "basket of deplorables" refe…

It really does not matter how you spin this. What is important is how it was perceived by the working class. The most obvious understanding, which would not involve mental gymnastics is that half of the people who support Trump are indeed deplorables, or they are deplorables just because they are homophobic or Islamophobic. Guess what - many of the working class are indeed are, which does not make them lesser human being; it is the result of the environment they grew up.

Re: Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn

#95

Post by WarOnPrivacy » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 10:03 PM UTC

jwilber wrote: post #17

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #15

I have a theory that when news orgs nurture soft authoritarians (Bush/Patriot Act, Obama/espionage charges for whistleblowers) their weakened journalistic instincts leave a vacuum that's easy for harder line authoritarians to fill. That's what I believed happened in the US. I wonder if a similar process happened in Belarus.

Curious why the onus is on journalists and not complacent political parties or branches/members of government. Sure, newsrooms can sway public opinion, but they’re also basically the only reason we know about those problems to begin with. Blaming them seems akin to treating a symptom, not the cause. Not trying to disagree. I do think journalists today are partially responsible for our current situation - especially W…

> Curious why the onus is on journalists and not complacent political parties or branches/members of government.

It's because the primary power to oust corrupt officials rests with the public. Likewise for the power to push broad policy change.

US Gov agencies have been accumulating inappropriate power and commit atrocities (esp post 2001), largely w/o any pushback or coverage from news orgs.

It hasn't been zero coverage. For example, Edward Snowden dragged reluctant news outlets into doing their jobs for a little while. But the vast, vast bulk of Gov misdeeds that are right out in the open, rarely get even a nod - while a small selection of stories get huge parallel coverage, from coast to coast.

Re: Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn

#96

Post by WarOnPrivacy » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 10:06 PM UTC

rsynnott wrote: post #87

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #15

I have a theory that when news orgs nurture soft authoritarians (Bush/Patriot Act, Obama/espionage charges for whistleblowers) their weakened journalistic instincts leave a vacuum that's easy for harder line authoritarians to fill. That's what I believed happened in the US. I wonder if a similar process happened in Belarus.

Belarus was never _not_ authoritarian. This isn’t really new.

Are you alleging that Belarus isn't experiencing a meaningful change in policy direction?

Re: Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn

#97

Post by vikramkr » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 10:15 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #18

vikramkr wrote: post #10

It was already authorization- its the "last dictatorship in europe" - what did they think it was before?

> its the "last dictatorship in europe" Well, I mean, if you ignore the country that takes up 39% (maybe a little more de facto after recent unilateral border alterations) of Europe, sure.

I used the scare quotes for a reason- Belarus definitely isn't the only dictatorship in Europe, but its a common enough nickname for it that you really should be surprised if a country that's nicknamed the "last" dictatorships is authoritarian.

Also, you could probably argue that Russia is Asian, or that turkey is European, its not like there's a clear historical or geographic border, so there's some flexibility in how many dictatorships or authoritarian leaning countries you include

Re: Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn

#98

Post by dzhiurgis » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 10:19 PM UTC

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #96

rsynnott wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Belarus was never _not_ authoritarian. This isn’t really new.

Are you alleging that Belarus isn't experiencing a meaningful change in policy direction?

The only change is that people fed up enough and just now there seems to be critical mass enough to tople the regime.

Re: Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn

#99

Post by xiphias2 » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 10:19 PM UTC

andyroid wrote: post #83

jakozaur wrote: post #60

Emigrating from Belarus to Poland is easy. Even if one of your grandparents has Polish origins you can get easily equivalent of USA green card. Polish governament is working on new law to make it even easier and available more broadly. Given Poland borders before World War II were covering huge part of today Belarus a lot of people can take of the advantage. Regular work permit for IT proffesional is also rubber stam…

From my friends in Poland I hear many of them are considering moving after the latest election and the direction the country seems to be heading. Good to know there are tech workers from Belarus to step into their positions.

If they get an EU citizenship, they may not stay in Poland for long.

Re: Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn

#100

Post by joelbluminator » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 10:23 PM UTC

throwaway5398 wrote: post #64

joelbluminator wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have quite a negative view of immigration. It works well for many people (while for others it doesn't). Children are quite adaptable. The West is long ago not 100% white and it's only gonna become more pronounced the coming decades. It's mixed. Whites will become the minority in U.S and the UK in the coming decades. It's not that different in West Europe, Canada, Australia, etc. Overall it's a good trend for immi…

>Whites will become the minority in U.S and the UK in the coming decades. It's not that different in West Europe, Canada, Australia, etc. Overall it's a good trend for immigrants. 1. The US may become a white-minority country. Europe, not really. Whites are still the majority, and are going to remain so in the distant future. The "Great Replacement" isn't real. 2. Most immigrants to EU countries are from other countr…

We can argue about numbers all night long. It doesn't matter if the U.S / UK is 65% white or 40% white. They're much LESS white than they used to be. That's the trend. If you're a visible minority, you'd probably feel more comfortable in NY / Berlin / London today than you would have 50 years ago, and 40 years from now unless something unexpected happens - you'd be even more comfortable. I wasn't aiming for a discussion about race or if "great replacement" is a thing. Only saying that for immigrants it's way better than it used to be, at least by numbers. your 3rd point: I don't believe most Arabs think of themselves as white or are seen as white (nor do they want to be), especially if they are religious muslims, which many of them are. So the difference between them and the dominant culture still exists, even if we're talking about 3rd generation "immigrants". your 4th point: visible minorities have a harder time. It's enough that 1% of the population is racist (it's usually way more), for them to have a sense of being discriminated against. Your colonies example is hit and miss, are French Algerians all perfectly integrated?