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Low Doses of LSD Acutely Increase BDNF Blood Plasma Levels in Healthy Volunteers

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Re: Low Doses of LSD Acutely Increase BDNF Blood Plasma Levels in Healthy Volunteers

#91
post #2

Anyone with first hand experience of LSD ?

I used it at a birthday party a few years ago. My main takeaways were twofold: First, it made me understand the concept of good and bad "vibes" w.r.t. to drug use. It was clear that the experience of taking LSD recreationally in a group of people was a much a social experience as a chemical one. Keeping the "vibe" positive, by playing the right kind of music, staying chill, and saying and doing the right things, was…

If you were not utterly blown away, you probably either took too small a dose and/or what you took wasn't actually LSD.

However, different drugs do affect different people differently. So it's possible you're just not very sensitive to LSD, but it is pretty unlikely. With the right dose, set, and setting, it's unlikely that you would be so unimpressed.

Re: Low Doses of LSD Acutely Increase BDNF Blood Plasma Levels in Healthy Volunteers

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly a fair number of studies have been done and the problem with all that stuff is there's always been a relatively high rate of complications and adverse outcomes. Responses/experiences are hard to predict. I get that in some people it can be a wonderful thing, nearly a miracle cure. I've done plenty of psychedelics myself, but I always find the insistence by proponents that any harm done is the fault of the us…

This is something that needs to be heard more. I'd taken psychedelics perhaps 50-60 times before I had one out-of-nowhere bad experience that caused more harm than all the good I'd gotten out of them in my life. I'm not against psychedelics after this either, huge supporter, but people like to pretend traumatic experiences don't have a chance of occuring.

What was the cause of the bad experience?

Re: Low Doses of LSD Acutely Increase BDNF Blood Plasma Levels in Healthy Volunteers

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I accidentally dosed myself in the middle of the night once after turning LSD crystal into ethanol:water:lsd solution and being careless at some point in the process. Those damn mucous membranes, they really get ya. Must have touched my lips absentmindedly. Before I realized, I was in bed trying to sleep. Restless, tossing and turning. Eventually started feeling that unmistakable body high around 1am. Anyone who’s do…

While waiting for the peak to pass on uncomfortably high doses, I sometimes entertain myself by closing my eyes and realizing I have no sense of how much time is passing until I open them. And if I hadn't the prior experience of closing my eyes while sober (and simply the ability to rationalize about how long things take), I wouldn't actually know if seconds or hours or eons were passing with the eyes shut. One thing…

Hmm, that sounds like your experience. I know a few cosmonauts and everyone’s different.

Some people just laugh at everything.

Re: Low Doses of LSD Acutely Increase BDNF Blood Plasma Levels in Healthy Volunteers

#95
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I skimmed the literature a bit, and the results on this seem to be pretty mixed. Basically, exercise boosts serum BDNF, except when it doesn't. In particular, it doesn't seem to be clear what the necessary conditions are for a sustained effect on BDNF, as opposed to a previously sedentary/untrained person getting a transient boost from a single bout of exercise. One study's [1] introduction summarized it thus ( a lot…

So why assume that studies of drugs have better technique? It's a lot easier to study exercise. I think a lot of X correlates with Y studies are just kinda crap for a number of reasons, including that we don't have extremely good baselines -- e.g. continuous 24 hour monitoring across a wide population in a multitude of circumstances.

I don't think we should make any such assumption. What this looks like to me is that researchers have seen a couple different ways to trigger something that might be the same mechanism, but the overall way it works is still enough of a mystery that it's hard to say what the overlap is.

Re: Low Doses of LSD Acutely Increase BDNF Blood Plasma Levels in Healthy Volunteers

#96
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is something that needs to be heard more. I'd taken psychedelics perhaps 50-60 times before I had one out-of-nowhere bad experience that caused more harm than all the good I'd gotten out of them in my life. I'm not against psychedelics after this either, huge supporter, but people like to pretend traumatic experiences don't have a chance of occuring.

What was the cause of the bad experience?

This is such a difficult question -- I honestly wish I knew the answer outright and could give it to you.

I don't think I can do that much, but what I can do is offer some theories and context.

(Note: I wrote at length about this experience, and my general experiences with both psychedelics + MDMA here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22991744)

I'll write the following under the assumption that you/the reader don't have experience with psychedelics. There are some things you can put into words for those unfamiliar, and a great many other things you cannot.

---

Psychedelics are a fundamentally neutral substance. What I mean by that is, that they and the experience, are neither good nor bad. As hippy as it sounds, "they are what you make of them".

This quality, if you ask me, boils down to one property: Psychedelics are enhancers. If you feel beautiful and happy and lively, you feel REALLY beautiful, happy, and lively.

If you start to become frightened/anxious of something, or are in a frightening situation, you become REALLY frightened.

And this becomes further amplified by a second property of psychedelics:

Rather than the usual business of "Some external occurrence or sensation happened, and here is my one thought/reaction to it." IE "Wow, that statement was rude, what a jerk." Or "Man, that dark alleyway looks kind of scary, I think I'll not go that way."

Your subconscious and free-association become stronger respective of dose, to the point where they can become runaway.

No longer is the equation "1 external action = 1 internal processing response", but some small experience can set off a chain reaction of internal association tumbling down a bunch of different paths.

Dark alleyway -> Oh that's scary -> That's the sort of place monsters would be -> Monsters, oh those are terrifying -> Murder is terrifying -> I don't want to be murdered -> There's probably a monster in that dark alleyway -> Dark alleyway, that's so terrifying -> You know what's probably in there, a monster? -> A monster would murder me -> I don't want to die -> Die.. death...

It becomes a looping, inescapable schizophrenic sort of experience where you've also lost enough short-term memory to forget you've been going in loops like this for what feels like years.

And because things are so ENHANCED, the amount of screaming terror, dread, etc you can feel is beyond any thing you can comprehend. Time is slowed to a crawl, this can continue for eternity.

Now, if that all sounds awful -- just imagine this whole scenario, but filled with the most intense happiness and love you can imagine. That's what MOST experiences are like, generally.

---

What happened that night is I started getting anxious and fell into a dark place in my mind and got stuck there for an eternity instead of a happy place, to put it shortly.

I also won't pretend I probably didn't have a lot of subconscious trauma from a really messed up childhood and likely other mental issues/insecurities.

Re: Low Doses of LSD Acutely Increase BDNF Blood Plasma Levels in Healthy Volunteers

#97
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be important, like a form of therapy based on counselling, thinking or talk seems beneficial for success of drug based psychotherapy. Whether it is better, we should learn properly and not assume. If it's not, we're wasting time. (Or perhaps it works better for true believers, that's an important thing to know as well.) It is good to remember though that these approaches exist, and to let them be practiced…

Wouldn't the data we have on mental health show that contemporary wisdom on its treatment is failing? Given spikes in rates of anxiety and depression over the past century, among other adverse effects, this isn't an unreasonable conclusion to make. That said, maybe it's more important to look at how these have been dealt with in the past than the data we have in the present.

Not one to the exclusion of other.

The spike can just as well be caused by bad environment we made for ourselves, ecologically and psychologically.

The problem is, we really do not know what we're doing when dealing with mental issues. Typical western approach is only slightly better than dosing people with random psychedelic substances of mostly unknown effects. The science done in field of psychotherapy is low to non-existent quality. Methodologies are in their infancy.

Of course something barely effective will fail.

Re: Low Doses of LSD Acutely Increase BDNF Blood Plasma Levels in Healthy Volunteers

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I accidentally dosed myself in the middle of the night once after turning LSD crystal into ethanol:water:lsd solution and being careless at some point in the process. Those damn mucous membranes, they really get ya. Must have touched my lips absentmindedly. Before I realized, I was in bed trying to sleep. Restless, tossing and turning. Eventually started feeling that unmistakable body high around 1am. Anyone who’s do…

Would you recommend a full dose 125-175ish by yourself for the first time?

Data from a study indicates that starting with 30-40 micrograms is good for most people: https://tripsafe.org/how-to-take-lsd/#3-use-a-safe-dosage-an...

It's extrapolated from psilocybin dosage but it seems about right.

Re: Low Doses of LSD Acutely Increase BDNF Blood Plasma Levels in Healthy Volunteers

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

visit to your psychiatrist will get you addicted to ritalin and valium. Visit to your local shaman will get you addicted to acid and shrooms. Your local dealer will get you addicted to meth, heroine and coke. Your choice. [ https://omitted.useless.links ]

Claiming that acid or shrooms is addictive like heroine or cocaine is a big “Citation Needed” moment.

Yes this guy says two things are addictive, so he must have said that two are alike in their addictiveness. I really don't know what you need, but I'm pretty sure I don't have it.

Re: Low Doses of LSD Acutely Increase BDNF Blood Plasma Levels in Healthy Volunteers

#100

Low doses may also prevent Alzheimers from progressing.[1][2] Ayahuasca/DMT[3] and psilocybin[4] may have similar effects. It's fascinating that a monthly visit to your local shaman may still be more safe and effective for depression, anxiety, and cognitive decline than anything western medicine has been able to produce. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/abbierosner/2020/02/21/microdos... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.…

Western medicine did produce it, or at least started to catch on. Then the war on drugs moral panic hit and all that research was shut down.
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