Live data from Hacker News

Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

palladiummag.com

231–240 of 262 posts

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Singapore is even more like a startup than you allude to. The whole country is run like a large corporation.

Yes, even to the degree that its leaders have become quite wealthy through the infrastructure of the government.

AFAIK one of LKY’s stated goals was to compete with private corporations for the best talent by paying comparably. DPMs are paid quite handsomely but not incomparable to C suite pay at large companies.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One thing about a democracy, if poor choices are made and poor leaders are selected, it’s only temporary until the next wave of elections. With sufficiently bad choices in a democracy it ceases to be a democracy before the error is corrected. Also, even when that doesn't happen, its possible for a choice to be bad but repeated in a democracy.

> With sufficiently bad choices in a democracy it ceases to be a democracy before the error is corrected. I’d like to see a real world example of what you mean. Because while lots of countries have elections, when leaders are allowed to arbitrarily extend their reign past with their laws allow, then I would agree with you. But those are the countries that I consider falling under the category of “masquerading as a de…

That seems a bit tautological to include the outcome in the definition. By that logic there are democracies today that will sometime in the future become “masquerading” that we can’t know yet.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol. I think you should give US more time to fail? (I guess). It's only 260 so years. That's too short if you place it into human history.

It’s actually one of the oldest continuing governments :) Current China is only ~70 years old for example. They have gone to great extents to erase their history, so they know they are young :)

:)

Roman empire failed after 1500 years.

Portuguese Empire failed after 584 years.

Khmer empire failed 630 years.

Kush Empire failed after 1420 years.

Silla Empire failed after 980 years

Holy Roman empire failed after 838 years

Kanem Empire failed after 676 years.

Chinese empire failed after 2000 years.

I asked my friend what's the connection between all these Civilizations? He told me "Empire."

What a stupid answer.

The connection is "failure." You know what hasn't failed! The United States of America that's what!

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

#234
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because LKY himself is an incorrptible person. Here you can have an insight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=142FbTYeK7k

He controls a 313 billion dollar fund that includes the country's internet access, cell phones access, the state run broadcasting and the banks. What would corruption look like when you already control everything? Putting people in prison for criticizing you, because they do that.

[deleted]

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just not true. There are very high levels of immigration allowed at all levels of society: from prostitute to executive. And I am not sure that any system that basically subsidizes housing at the level they do can be claimed to be a restrictive welfare society.

By subsidize housing you mean that the government builds housing which they then sell to citizens. Which is a form of middle class welfare, but quite different from what most westerners would consider subsidized housing. If you’re unemployed in Singapore, you get 3 months worth of welfare from the government. After that you rely on your own savings. (Unless you’re permanently disabled)

Going from first principles though, Singapore has a large ethnically Chinese population which tends to take care of family members / elders more than in the west.

Unless western countries are willing to adopt a culture of filial piety where you can live with your parents until you’re married and your parents expect you to take care of them in old age, I don’t see them replicating that feature.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the civilizations I mentioned were authoritarian. Egyptian Pharaohs, Roman Caesars, Chinese Emperors. The history of all great civilizations is by a huge majority created and maintained through authoritative rule. In fact, modern anthropological theory states that the first step in the formation of a big civilization requires central authorities to form first. >what we should really be looking at is whether they…

> America didn't have the capability to provide room for the influx of covid-19 patients No, America had (and still has) central authority make (making) a conscious choice not only not to direct energy at that purpose but to actively interfere with subordinate authorities attempts to do so for purposes linked to maintaining institutional power by placing blame. There was no lack of capacity caused by the absence of c…

>No, America had (and still has) central authority make (making) a conscious choice not only not to direct energy at that purpose but to actively interfere with subordinate authorities attempts to do so for purposes linked to maintaining institutional power by placing blame.

Right of course. You're talking about the HBB, the Hospital Building Bureau the government sponsored central entity that builds all hospitals in the United States obeying trump and not building any hospitals.

According to wikipedia:

   Health care in the United States is provided by many distinct organizations.[1] Health care facilities are largely owned and operated by private sector businesses. 58% of community hospitals in the United States are non-profit, 21% are government-owned, and 21% are for-profit.
Which is pure BS. Hospitals are centrally planned like you said by the HBB! Central authorities are stopping hospitals from being built! Nothing to do with private enterprise or the lack of central control! My friend told me it's because private enterprise isn't reacting fast enough to demand because the demand is temporary and there really is no profit for private business to build more hospitals! What a stupid answer. Obviously it's a government conspiracy.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

#237
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US institutions have a huge issue with regulatory capture

Regulatory capture is profiteering off something other that value added. Which US institutions are profiting?

There’s a revolving door system where you can make laws to benefit an incumbent large company and conveniently end up as a board member in a few years after quitting the government role.

So while the 3 letter agencies don’t profit directly, sometimes the people do.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the civilizations I mentioned were authoritarian. Egyptian Pharaohs, Roman Caesars, Chinese Emperors. The history of all great civilizations is by a huge majority created and maintained through authoritative rule. In fact, modern anthropological theory states that the first step in the formation of a big civilization requires central authorities to form first. >what we should really be looking at is whether they…

Yes and how useful was that hospital? How much of that construction equipment moving about on the drone videos was just for show vs actually contributing to its construction?

The hospital was built to save lives. Now that the initial wave of the pandemic is over the hospital sits empty.

Private enterprise would never spend resources to build hospitals to save lives simply because it isn't "profitable." Only a centrally planned government will pull off such a feat purely in the name of saving lives without regard to profit. I mean literally no non-profit in the united states is capable of building a hospital just to handle a temporary spike in demand.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

#239
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hand-waving things away with your absolutist statement is what truly seems naive. IMO there is far more nuance than you suggest. Democracy seems to work well for some types of problems but not others. What happens to democracies when faced with threats that manifest over very short timescales? They aren't nimble enough to respond in time. This is most evident in larger democracies; look at US/India responses to COVID…

One thing about a democracy, if poor choices are made and poor leaders are selected, it’s only temporary until the next wave of elections. But in a dictatorship, or even something that masquerades as a democracy but is not, those choices may go unchecked for decades.

Some views suggest that the political structure of the United States is in many respects an oligarchy, where a small economic elite overwhelmingly determines policy and law. Some academic researchers suggest a drift toward oligarchy has been occurring by way of the influence of corporations, wealthy, and other special interest groups, leaving individual citizens with less impact than economic elites and organized interest groups in the political process.

A study by political scientists Martin Gilens (Princeton University) and Benjamin Page (Northwestern University) released in April 2014 suggested that when the preferences of a majority of citizens conflicts with elites, elites tend to prevail. While not characterizing the United States as an "oligarchy" or "plutocracy" outright, Gilens and Page do give weight to the idea of a "civil oligarchy" as used by Jeffrey A. Winters, saying, "Winters has posited a comparative theory of 'Oligarchy,' in which the wealthiest citizens – even in a 'civil oligarchy' like the United States – dominate policy concerning crucial issues of wealth- and income-protection."

In their study, Gilens and Page reached these conclusions:

   When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites and/or with organized interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the US political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favor policy change, they generally do not get it. ... The preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.
   — Martin Gilens and Benjamin I. Page, 2014
E.J. Dionne Jr. described what he considers the effects of ideological and oligarchical interests on the judiciary. The journalist, columnist, and scholar interprets recent Supreme Court decisions as ones that allow wealthy elites to use economic power to influence political outcomes in their favor. "Thus," Dionne wrote, in speaking about the Supreme Court's McCutcheon et al. v. FEC and Citizens United v. FEC decisions, "has this court conferred on wealthy people the right to give vast sums of money to politicians while undercutting the rights of millions of citizens to cast a ballot."

Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman wrote:

   The stark reality is that we have a society in which money is increasingly concentrated in the hands of a few people. This threatens to make us a democracy in name only.
   — Paul Krugman, 2012

I would say, again, that the answer is complex and multifaceted. It is not exactly clear whether authoritarianism or democracy is better. One thing is clear though... both are far from perfect.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not turn this into a character assassination. That's what they do in politics and I hope HN is above this stuff. Henry Ford invented the modern factory by bringing the conveyor belt into the manufacturing system. He was also an anti-Semite who supported Hitler. Do not ignore the fact he was an anti-semite, but also do not ignore the fact that he invented the modern factory. People are complicated, contradictory…

> Let's not turn this into a character assassination. This discussion is filled with praise for the late dictator. But say something negative and "let's not turn this into a character assassination". When discussing a notable person, why shouldn't we talk about their flaws as much as their positive attributes?

Discuss away. It's just that posts like these tend to actually completely assassinate the character and all discussions related to it. I'm just putting this here to temper the sentiment before it gets carried away. I am in no way trying to censor all criticism.
Post reply on HN