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'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

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Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#201

Post by sammorrowdrums »

abduhl wrote: post #183
sammorrowdrums wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your phrasing is misleading. BLM isn't responsible. A veteran sympathetic to the cause went on a shooting spree granted, but I don't know how you get from that to "BLM was responsible"

You cannot on one hand claim that BLM is an organic, grass roots, and completely headless organization while at the same time disclaiming someone as a member of the supposed unorganized organization composed entirely of people who self identify as BLM members.

That logic isn't correct. Take for counter example Christians, a group of largely self identifying "members of an organisation". It doesn't logically follow that if a self-identifying Christian shoots a lot of people that "Christianity is responsible" either. That lacks nuance, of course groups of individuals that self-identify as part of a group can act as individuals and as a group, and it's often unclear externally which actions are attributable to a group and which are attributable to individuals or sub-groups.

It's simply impossible to be definitive with incomplete information, reductionist and I can't see the merit in basing a position in the presumption that all actions are of the whole.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#202

Post by Jonnax »

baryphonic wrote: post #160

The mainstream reporting was so bad I just started looking on Twitter. I found both pro- and anti-"protest" accounts with video. Even the pro-protest account videos debunk the narrative that these are peaceful African-American protestors. Whenever one lets the mask slip or shows her hands or hair, it's a young white person. These are night time riots, plain and simple. Surveillance footage released by law enforcement…

Hacker culture isn't the entire field of programming.

Facebook, Youtube and Twitter are some of the largest businesses in the world and they are also free services.

I would bet that the majority of people who code or design software find hacker culture, to be silly.

The most read and shared news websites are anti-protest on Facebook. [1]

With the President and many politicians supporting the killing in in Kenosha, clearly a portion of those in power support it.

There are alternative news sites, forums and even social media. Nobody is locked to these sites, except for an entitlement to an audience.

[1] https://twitter.com/FacebooksTop10/status/130190203942584729...

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#203

Post by pmoriarty »

zaroth wrote: post #19

The mainstream news reporting on Portland (and other regional rioting) got to the point where they were bald-faced lying about peaceful protests standing in front of burning buildings. The most charitable interpretation I can think of is that these professional journalists think that their readers can’t understand a nuanced world of gray and need everything reduced to black and white. There can be a concept of “BLM”…

I would sincerely like to know which non-mainstream news reporting organization you get your information from to so confidently opine that the mainstream media are being too soft on the protestors in Portland.

Somehow I suspect that it's not The Nation or Democracy Now! and more like Breitbart or FOX.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#204

Post by vidarh »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #174
vidarh wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first problem is when people try to treat antifa as an organization rather than as a loose ideology that is supported by groups across a wide spectrum, and then tries to use that to assign guilt by correlation. E.g. the original antifa was set up by the KPD (pre-war German communist party), but many modern antifa groups use logos that incorporates symbols that were used by the SPD to explicitly attack the KPD and…

> opposition to fascism For me, the problem with contemporary Antifa movements is that either "fascism" is left undefined, or perhaps worse yet, it is defined in a way that actually excludes a lot of the earlier Leftist activism from which Antifa ultimately derives. For example, many of the intellectuals of May '68 (who did, after all, believe that they were anti-fascist and seeking to rid the world of vestiges of Na…

I've yet to see any antifa groups push views of the type you're suggesting, though I don't doubt that they do exist, as the point I was making is that the labelling has been full of contradictions from the start:

KPD who formed the original Antifaschistische Aktion, was just as authoritarian as the fascists themselves, as as I pointed out, common modern symbols of antifa were symbols used against the KPD as well as the nazis.

When the term was resurrected again in modern use, it was resurrected by anarcho-syndicalists (hence why you often find antifa logos mixing black and red or entirely black) who rejected all forms of authoritarianism.

As such trying to treat them as anything resembling a single grouping, or even a single coherent ideology is meaningless, and does not in any way reflect reality.

They share a handful of ideas, and different groups place those ideas in entirely different frameworks and comingle them with entirely different other sets of ideas.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#205

Post by geitir »

ppf wrote: post #6

If you spend any time on the Portland subreddit, you'll see plenty of stories and comments about how the city is just fine, and only Trump fans with an agenda push a "rioting and burning narrative". It's amazing watching hypocritical narrative control in action. These are the same people pushing for police body cameras.

This is just a general observation but the reason I don't enjoy reddit is because it is imo the worst offender of a site that promotes a "mutual admiration society". So maybe that is at play here

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#206

Post by ip26 »

humanrebar wrote: post #182
mStreamTeam wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it more concerning how quickly people forget the past. In 2016 BLM was responsible for a mass shooting in Dallas and most people I know already forgot this fact. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_shooting_of_Dallas_poli...

I think "responsible" might be overstating it. But if BLM is not responsible, then it does poke holes in the ACAB and maybe even "Defund the Police" positions. If protestors can dissociate from rogue actors, can police? If not, what's the clear difference beyond political tribalism?

The trouble is the behaviors in the police seem to be fairly widespread, the perpetrators are protected, and reform is actively resisted. At that point it isn't a rouge actor.

There has always been police violence, but what cell phones have done is reveal how widespread it may have always been, rejecting the rouge actor narrative.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#207

Post by twirlock »

pmoriarty wrote: post #203
zaroth wrote: post #19

The mainstream news reporting on Portland (and other regional rioting) got to the point where they were bald-faced lying about peaceful protests standing in front of burning buildings. The most charitable interpretation I can think of is that these professional journalists think that their readers can’t understand a nuanced world of gray and need everything reduced to black and white. There can be a concept of “BLM”…

I would sincerely like to know which non-mainstream news reporting organization you get your information from to so confidently opine that the mainstream media are being too soft on the protestors in Portland. Somehow I suspect that it's not The Nation or Democracy Now! and more like Breitbart or FOX .

I'm trying to figure out how it's even possible that you're asking this question while simultaneously being under the impression that you know what you're talking about.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#208

Post by watwut »

humanrebar wrote: post #182
mStreamTeam wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it more concerning how quickly people forget the past. In 2016 BLM was responsible for a mass shooting in Dallas and most people I know already forgot this fact. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_shooting_of_Dallas_poli...

I think "responsible" might be overstating it. But if BLM is not responsible, then it does poke holes in the ACAB and maybe even "Defund the Police" positions. If protestors can dissociate from rogue actors, can police? If not, what's the clear difference beyond political tribalism?

I would expect the police to investigate and remove own bad actors. The police have the power to fire cops, to charge cops and imprison bad cops. I think that when police does that, the police should absolutely be able dissociate from those cops actions. On the other hand, if bad cops are not removed or are promoted, then police can not dissociate.

I would expect some similar test to be applied to BLM. Is the person who shoot up people talked about positively and promoted as role model to BLM fans? Is that person instead pushed away?

Imo, it is actions of leadership and generally of culture of the organization that determines whether dissociation from bad member is real or an not real. E.g. whether member is rogue or standard.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#209

Post by Fellshard »

gbrown wrote: post #157
kyrra wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is the same way, most reporters are democrats. See: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/25/media-bub... https://ballotpedia.org/Fact_check/Do_97_percent_of_journali...

1. Forget reporters, our media is run mostly by mega-corporations. 2. Democrat != liberal, Republican != conservative, especially when comparing between countries

The bigger point is that once side of a partisan divide represents the vast majority of media resources, and the last several years have pulled back the curtain on their partisan behavior.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#210

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

sneak wrote: post #32

It makes me sad that an institution I used to like and respect, reason.com, seems more and more often to subscribe to the standard (and, taken uncritically, untrue) set pieces of the standard American culture war. This one, in particular, that “antifa is a violent mob that is super hypocritical”, and also aliasing “antifa” and “blm” as coterminous. The truth is very different, but I fear that many in their libertaria…

Your assessment was thoughtful, reasonable - and hammered with downvotes. I'm sensing a pattern where it's the well-expressed concerns with authoritarianism that are getting dogpiled.
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