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The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices

theatlantic.com

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Re: The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices

#81

Post by dragonwriter »

dvtrn wrote: post #78
dragonwriter wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than initially temporarily getting pulled in to work support for Citrix for our large organization converting from almost 100% onsite to 100% remote with almost everyone who had been desktop dependent getting Citrix access overnight, I feel like WFH has made work as a dev easier. It hasn't reduced expected velocity, but it has reduced meetings that should be emails, drop-in interruptions, distractions from peop…

I suspect it’s highly team-culture and org dependent, to be fair. A friend in the American Southwest expresses just as you do: meetings have declined, “walk ups” have all but stopped and he’s more productive ever. My org? Literally the opposite in every listed factor. In fact we had a meeting today as a functional team* about how we plan to put up some guardrails just for ourselves so we can get some shit done. I am…

> I suspect it’s highly team-culture and org dependent, to be fair

Sure, absolutely. I was sharing my experience, but I certainly didn't intend to claim it was universal.

Re: The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices

#82

Post by MrMorden »

VLM wrote: post #24
benrbray wrote: post #9

As a recent graduate with an overseas job offer who has been left with no choice but to work remotely until Japan re-opens its borders to foreign workers, this really hits home. My student apartment is not equipped for this lifestyle. I do not have a home office in a sprawling estate in the suburbs on several acres of property where I can enjoy the sounds of nature. I live in a small apartment on a busy street surrou…

If you're a 30 minute drive away from a park it must be extremely urban and therefore expensive. It might be cheaper to move somewhere suburban or go completely nomadic. You may not get a chance to see the Grand Canyon or other national parks anytime soon if you're moving to Japan, so now might be a very good time. Google searches for mountain view CA apartment rents as an example of hyper dense urban life far from g…

An urban location won't be more then ten minutes away from a park by foot. A 30 minute drive means exurbia.

Re: The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices

#83

Post by analog31 »

hevelvarik wrote: post #27

I love everything about WFH save for that I get far less exercise not making my daily MTA

I've biked to work every day for more than a decade. When I started WFH, I read a comment online about doing a "fake commute." So, I put myself on a schedule for I go for a long brisk walk every morning before my regular work day.

Re: The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices

#84

Post by rangibaby »

RandoHolmes wrote: post #80
slykar wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the small company CEO who relies on force of personality and everyone in the same room urgently working to get something done, WFH might be terrible. Working remotely for a small company with a few people from around the world and it's going fine. We are in contact when we have to be. I can cut distractions when I need to. No open space office bulshit. I was raised on IM. I'm fine communicating like this. If I…

I think WFH is particularly difficult for young people, not because they don't have access to seniors (or any other such drivel), but because they often don't have the discipline necessary for it. For example, I've been doing freelance work for well over 10 years now and I eventually started insisting on having an extra office with a strict policy of the room is for work only (even if not paying work). The thing is,…

Even when I was in my early 20s it took way more discipline for me to work in an open office than WFH. It's hard to concentrate on a task when your coworkers of all ages and ranks are talking about TV, sports, and politics all day long

Re: The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices

#85

Post by benrbray »

ci5er wrote: post #51
VLM wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a 30 minute drive away from a park it must be extremely urban and therefore expensive. It might be cheaper to move somewhere suburban or go completely nomadic. You may not get a chance to see the Grand Canyon or other national parks anytime soon if you're moving to Japan, so now might be a very good time. Google searches for mountain view CA apartment rents as an example of hyper dense urban life far from g…

You are very (very!) generous with this. Tokyo ain't CA (for example, I can't imagine he would want to drive anywhere for a good while). There are more forgiving environments (and processes!), but it sounds as if he's going to have to spend some time on the ground to figure that out. It can be a weird place for six-or-so months.

Actually, the problem is that I'm stuck in Atlanta, unable to enter Japan due to their coronavirus travel restrictions. Whenever I do make it to Tokyo, I think the remote work experience will be a lot more pleasant due to the overall better designed city.

Re: The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices

#86

Post by xkcd-sucks »

necubi wrote: post #50
frompdx wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case I suppose I'll give The Atlantic the benefit of the doubt because they do clearly spell out their advertising and paid content guidelines in this document (pdf warning). http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/front/docs/ads/TheAtlantic... They also make an effort to distinguish paid content from their editorial content like this article from College Board. https://www.theatlantic.com/sponsored/the-college-boa…

Clearly you are someone who strongly believes in the superiority of remote work, but is it really that hard to believe that there are people who disagree? I'm a software engineer with no connection to the commercial real-estate industry, and I'm pretty sure I haven't been a "victim of a subtle PR campaign." And yet I find remote work alienating and psychologically difficult, and I'm eager for a return to the office.…

If there are people in your org / social circle who agree with you, why not form an ad-hoc office amongst yourselves?

Re: The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices

#87

Post by benrbray »

MrMorden wrote: post #82
VLM wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a 30 minute drive away from a park it must be extremely urban and therefore expensive. It might be cheaper to move somewhere suburban or go completely nomadic. You may not get a chance to see the Grand Canyon or other national parks anytime soon if you're moving to Japan, so now might be a very good time. Google searches for mountain view CA apartment rents as an example of hyper dense urban life far from g…

An urban location won't be more then ten minutes away from a park by foot. A 30 minute drive means exurbia.

Atlanta!

Re: The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices

#88

Post by dehrmann »

Same thing for students. There will be a cohort that's a ~year behind where they should be in most skills. It'll also be interesting to see what happens with students who were under-tested; some will advance when they're not ready, and for things like college admissions, between fewer standardized tests and noisier grades, I'm not sure how colleges that want quality students will maintain their standards.

Re: The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices

#89

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

sJ646U9k6c6gME9 wrote: post #35
chadash wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And that's aside from the point that, when everyone is remote, you're also competing with the world who is also remote. Yup... once everyone is remote anyway, won't take too long for some manager to decide to offshore work to cheaper countries. Even if that doesn't happen to you, if it happens to enough people elsewhere it'll bring salaries down for everyone.

Offshoring is not a new concept, and everyone knows it doesn’t work. How come offshoring hasn’t eaten my lunch yet?

Because the pandemic is forcing literally _everybody_ to work their tails off to figure out how to make remote work succeed. Once managers master that (and they will because they have no choice), it's a tiny, tiny jump to offshoring.

Re: The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices

#90

Post by alexbanks »

RandoHolmes wrote: post #80
slykar wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the small company CEO who relies on force of personality and everyone in the same room urgently working to get something done, WFH might be terrible. Working remotely for a small company with a few people from around the world and it's going fine. We are in contact when we have to be. I can cut distractions when I need to. No open space office bulshit. I was raised on IM. I'm fine communicating like this. If I…

I think WFH is particularly difficult for young people, not because they don't have access to seniors (or any other such drivel), but because they often don't have the discipline necessary for it. For example, I've been doing freelance work for well over 10 years now and I eventually started insisting on having an extra office with a strict policy of the room is for work only (even if not paying work). The thing is,…

Can I ask why you think that young people are inherently less disciplined?
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