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The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices

theatlantic.com

21–30 of 154 posts

Re: The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices

#21
post #2

This article appears in the October 2020 print edition with the headline “A Cubicle Never Looked So Good.” To be honest, I've never really had a cubicle. Usually just a desk in a bullpin type arrangement. No privacy. Distractions galore. The sound of co-workers flushing the toilets in the restrooms nearby. Nothing to reflect fondly upon in my opinion. If I had wanted or needed a new job, completely changing careers w…

> Overall this feels like yet another hit piece against remote work...I really don't understand why these keep cropping up. Are commercial real-estate conglomerates paying for these? I appreciate the perspective you shared in the rest of your comment, but was this bit really necessary? Just because someone has had a different experience than you doesn't mean that they're a corporate shill paid to manufacture dissent.

I do think it is necessary. It's one thing to share your experience about remote work as the author does. It's something entirely different to interleave it with with vague concerns of economic hardship for younger people or stunted career growth for women. What is the purpose of this?

In my mind I imagine a boardroom full of Don Draper types sipping scotch and smoking cigarettes fretting over the decline in office leasing revenue while Draper spins a brilliant web of fiction. "We'll tell them that it is bad for the careers of women and we'll make them miss the smell of their co-worker's day old spaghetti as it spins on the microwave turntable. We'll even make them long for the awkward interactions in the hallway while they go down a level to the inconveniently placed restroom on the floor below. They'll eat it up."

The anti-remote work hit-piece aspect is really my point. To me these articles feel like some kind of thinly veiled attempt to make people believe they missed working in the office. Maybe even make people fear for their futures if they don't work in an office. Maybe this isn't the case and isn't what the author intended, but that is how it reads to me.

Re: The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices

#22

WFH has a huge difference in result depending on who you are, when you are (in your career), and where you are in a company (of organization). -- For the budding young developer who can't wait to show ideas to teammates and demonstrate being a go-getter by asking random questions and finding unaddressed issues to innovate on, WFH might be terrible. You're going to schedule time to fortuitously run into the senior per…

> -- For the developer who works by tickets on very concrete things and this is nothing new, WFH might be great. You're right, everyone who doesn't live in San Francisco is just mindlessly churning through tickets all day.

I can't even imagine how huge a chip on your shoulder you must need to interpret the parent comment so ludicrously.

Re: The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices

#23

WFH has a huge difference in result depending on who you are, when you are (in your career), and where you are in a company (of organization). -- For the budding young developer who can't wait to show ideas to teammates and demonstrate being a go-getter by asking random questions and finding unaddressed issues to innovate on, WFH might be terrible. You're going to schedule time to fortuitously run into the senior per…

》For the working parent whose productivity has been slashed by 50% and stress has gone up by 50% due to parenting obligations, WFH might be terrible. And working at office with 1 hour drive home, makes those parenting obligations somehow easier?

As a parent, yes. I prefer an office because there are fewer distractions. If you hear your kid laughing outside your office, it's hard not to want to take a look. Plus, my commute is me time, where i get to listen to podcasts/audiobooks and relax.

Sure, if my commute were especially long, I might say otherwise, but that's a different discussion.

Re: The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices

#24
post #9

As a recent graduate with an overseas job offer who has been left with no choice but to work remotely until Japan re-opens its borders to foreign workers, this really hits home. My student apartment is not equipped for this lifestyle. I do not have a home office in a sprawling estate in the suburbs on several acres of property where I can enjoy the sounds of nature. I live in a small apartment on a busy street surrou…

If you're a 30 minute drive away from a park it must be extremely urban and therefore expensive. It might be cheaper to move somewhere suburban or go completely nomadic. You may not get a chance to see the Grand Canyon or other national parks anytime soon if you're moving to Japan, so now might be a very good time.

Google searches for mountain view CA apartment rents as an example of hyper dense urban life far from green areas seem to indicate $2K to $6K/month is quite reasonable. Similar google searches for rural Wisconsin cabins indicate a thousand bucks per week will get a cabin on a lake in the woods with a pontoon boat, wet bar, and hot tub. You don't have to worry about your schedule if your closest neighbor is a quarter mile away. Internet might or might not be a problem.

The problem with spending a couple months at some New Orleans bed and breakfasts is you'd be close enough to be reminded everything is shut down, and noise level. Might be easier to stick with rural retreats and adventures.

The united states lighthouse association website lists rentable lighthouses if you really want to get away from it all. Again, internet via satellite may or may not be a problem. The entire lighthouse on Charity Island in Michigan can be rented for not too much more than a Mountain View apartment.

You could do a very small house boat on a lake for $4K to $6K per month off season. There is no shortage of houseboat rentals and lakes and parks to visit. Could try the mississippi river...

In all fairness I did spend yesterday in a park shelter at a county park with excellent wireless working away in 70 degree breezes, but there are many days when it rains or its 100 or 0.

Re: The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices

#25
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Overall this feels like yet another hit piece against remote work...I really don't understand why these keep cropping up. Are commercial real-estate conglomerates paying for these? I appreciate the perspective you shared in the rest of your comment, but was this bit really necessary? Just because someone has had a different experience than you doesn't mean that they're a corporate shill paid to manufacture dissent.

I do think it is necessary. It's one thing to share your experience about remote work as the author does. It's something entirely different to interleave it with with vague concerns of economic hardship for younger people or stunted career growth for women. What is the purpose of this? In my mind I imagine a boardroom full of Don Draper types sipping scotch and smoking cigarettes fretting over the decline in office l…

This is not quite the "world wide web" we signed up for, but its definitely the one we got, LOL.

Re: The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices

#26
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Overall this feels like yet another hit piece against remote work...I really don't understand why these keep cropping up. Are commercial real-estate conglomerates paying for these? I appreciate the perspective you shared in the rest of your comment, but was this bit really necessary? Just because someone has had a different experience than you doesn't mean that they're a corporate shill paid to manufacture dissent.

I do think it is necessary. It's one thing to share your experience about remote work as the author does. It's something entirely different to interleave it with with vague concerns of economic hardship for younger people or stunted career growth for women. What is the purpose of this? In my mind I imagine a boardroom full of Don Draper types sipping scotch and smoking cigarettes fretting over the decline in office l…

Perhaps its not a web of lies and this situation really is hurting this persons career? I think it's usually a good idea to assume that there isn't a large misinformation campaign going on.

Re: The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices

#28
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

》For the working parent whose productivity has been slashed by 50% and stress has gone up by 50% due to parenting obligations, WFH might be terrible. And working at office with 1 hour drive home, makes those parenting obligations somehow easier?

As a parent, yes. I prefer an office because there are fewer distractions. If you hear your kid laughing outside your office, it's hard not to want to take a look. Plus, my commute is me time, where i get to listen to podcasts/audiobooks and relax. Sure, if my commute were especially long, I might say otherwise, but that's a different discussion.

Commute can also be exercise/activity time.

Re: The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices

#29

WFH has a huge difference in result depending on who you are, when you are (in your career), and where you are in a company (of organization). -- For the budding young developer who can't wait to show ideas to teammates and demonstrate being a go-getter by asking random questions and finding unaddressed issues to innovate on, WFH might be terrible. You're going to schedule time to fortuitously run into the senior per…

》For the working parent whose productivity has been slashed by 50% and stress has gone up by 50% due to parenting obligations, WFH might be terrible. And working at office with 1 hour drive home, makes those parenting obligations somehow easier?

WFH parenting is made much harder with daycare workers and school teachers now WFH.

Re: The social and economic costs borne by young people without offices

#30
post #7

I'm doing home-office since 2013 and I'm doing fine. Have my surf and social life in my routine. Work focused, produce more and spend less time trying to get stuff done. Cook daily is hard but sometimes a joy and a must if you want to leave healthy. I would never come back to a 5 days in the office routine. Never.

>Cook daily is hard but sometimes a joy and a must if you want to leave healthy.

Hit this on the head. Since I've started working remotely, ~1 year before the pandemic, I've really seen my diet improve. I eat clean. Fresh vegetables and grains are much cheaper than food truck/restaurants. I do put in hours though, but I haven't timed it. I usually can pull off cooking during my lunch break or during the 2-3 monthly all staff meetings I have where I don't do any talking.

What really baffles me about all of this is how full the fast food drive thrus are when I go about on errands.

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