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Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

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Re: Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

#311

Post by djur »

phobosanomaly wrote: post #224
andreilys wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

” I try to focus on the ones that seem to feel they have a duty to report on the news” Can you share an example? I have trouble coming up with any which aren’t burdened with profit or idealogical motives.

I think wire services are generally pretty good, and Wikipedia Current Events Portal has a decent roundup of wire reports (AP, BBC, Reuters, etc) for stuff going on in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Current_events Everyone has profit motives and stuff, but if you're well-read and keep an eye on what's going on you can usually subtract any bias you detect.

There's a great deal that can be criticized about the journalism provided by mainstream media outlets (which news is considered newsworthy, which experts are consulted, etc.), but I don't know of any evidence suggesting that the standards for factual reporting have slipped any. The question of who can be trusted to provide analysis is as relevant as it's ever been.

Re: Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

#312

Post by whiddershins »

pessimizer wrote: post #125
blhack wrote: post #78

It's just so sad. The biggest one lately for me has been watching the riots which are happening all over the US. The really crazy thing is that all of these things are livestreamed usually by 10s of people in every city, who are standing a few feet from the people burning buildings and attacking people. You can virtually attend all of these things from your office. To watch buildings burning, people chanting that the…

Don't think that just because you're your own editor you can't be deceived by editing. You're feeding yourself with the material that you're seeking out. edit: just spend a day only looking up the millions peacefully marching, rather than the 10s of right-wing livestreams. (Also, give me some information about the people you've seen attacking and burning private residences, because I don't know of a single example of…

If someone was peaceful all day and then commits murder, maybe the murder only takes 5 minutes, or 30 seconds ... would you proceed to characterize their day as mostly peaceful?

I mean, mathematically yes, but it points to how this word ‘mostly’ is what journalism teaches is a weasel-word. It renders the statement meaningless.

Re: Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

#313

Post by Nasrudith »

NortySpock wrote: post #250
iagovar wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specialized publications. But you have to pay for them, and they typically aren't really the news, and use some jargon.

"The truth is paywalled, but the lies are free..." https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/08/the-truth-is-paywalle...

I am surprised at how few people understand this basic bit of economics - perhaps marketers are to blame for the obvious being inconceivable.

Just because you are paying more doesn't mean you will get more for it. If you go with a niche specialization you may well pay through the nose for very expensive lies. See Spectrum, the HIV-AIDS Denialism magazine that went defunct after all editors died of AIDS for an example.

Re: Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

#314

Post by whiddershins »

booleandilemma wrote: post #292
TheGrim-888 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really disheartening. Until recently I lived in Capitol Hill, Seattle, 4 or 5 blocks away from CHAZ/CHOP. I saw with my own eyes what was happening. I saw with my own eyes buildings get set on fire multiple times within a block of my apartment. I saw with my own eyes the riots, looting, violence, nightly political shows of force. Just two days ago they were molotov cocktailing a police precinct. There's even vid…

Your profile is 4 months old, right around when the riots started in Minneapolis. You have 0 karma points. Several of your comments are dead/flagged. I'm wondering if you're some kind of political shill.

GP is making points that go against the common narrative, this is guaranteed to get downvotes.

Might be a shill, but more likely just a contrarian who isn’t being well treated on HN.

Re: Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

#315

Post by 3131s »

icelancer wrote: post #182
minimuffins wrote: post #117

The feeling that it's just completely impossible to know what's going on in the world is really debilitating. I spend probably an hour a day reading headlines from major outlets with a bunch of different political alignments, and to be honest, I don't really know why I even do it. By the end of it, all I really have is a vague silhouette of a picture of what might have happened, according to a handful of corporations…

>> The feeling that it's just completely impossible to know what's going on in the world is really debilitating. Is it? Why? Does it meaningfully change your life to know what's going on everywhere from the mundane to the impactful? Our lives are lived in the present, locally. You interact with people in your community thousands of times more than people you read about thousands of miles away. Be where your feet are.

> Our lives are lived in the present, locally.

Meaningless nonsense.

> You interact with people in your community thousands of times more than people you read about thousands of miles away.

So? How does that invalidate your civic obligation to be aware of the decisions made in the centers of power outside your community? This whole dichotomy between the "local interactions" / socializing vs. governance that happens "thousands of miles away" has no basis.

> Be where your feet are.

Try living in a real hell hole and see if you find self-help phrases like this useful.

Re: Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

#316

Post by Nasrudith »

whiddershins wrote: post #312
pessimizer wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't think that just because you're your own editor you can't be deceived by editing. You're feeding yourself with the material that you're seeking out. edit: just spend a day only looking up the millions peacefully marching, rather than the 10s of right-wing livestreams. (Also, give me some information about the people you've seen attacking and burning private residences, because I don't know of a single example of…

If someone was peaceful all day and then commits murder, maybe the murder only takes 5 minutes, or 30 seconds ... would you proceed to characterize their day as mostly peaceful? I mean, mathematically yes, but it points to how this word ‘mostly’ is what journalism teaches is a weasel-word. It renders the statement meaningless.

Well there is your problem - you are literally treating a large collection of very different people like a single person or hive mind.

Seriously pause and reflect since that usually comes up with very severe bigots and is pretty far down the dehumanization ladder.

Re: Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

#317

Post by wellplayed76 »

phobosanomaly wrote: post #216
icelancer wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The feeling that it's just completely impossible to know what's going on in the world is really debilitating. Is it? Why? Does it meaningfully change your life to know what's going on everywhere from the mundane to the impactful? Our lives are lived in the present, locally. You interact with people in your community thousands of times more than people you read about thousands of miles away. Be where your feet are.

I personally view it as a duty. Part of being a citizen in a (kind of) functioning democracy is understanding the nuances of the stuff that is screwed up around you to the best of your ability so that when the time comes to vote or have a meaningful discussion with others around you, you can be a voice of reason. Ignoring the world around them is how so many Americans still think Iraq had something to do with 9/11. I…

I will say, you are the perfect user/customer to have for media companies. Given the moral duty you ascribe to information consumption from these sites, I'd imagine it'd take a lot to lose you as a user.

As a user researcher, I'm really curious on how you think about what matters/what doesn't matter in terms of your news consumption. Obviously, there is a near infinite amount of things that happen every day/week/month/year/decade, but we all have a very finite amount of attention we can give to all of the information & potential news.

What issues/information/stories do you think matter? Is there a strong correlation between what you think matters and what NYT, WaPo, etc. are producing? Did you independently come up with the topics that most matter and then you track news on them, or you decide what matters after consuming news on the news sites?

Re: Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

#318

Post by djur »

refurb wrote: post #274
082349872349872 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would bet the press is talking about different people than the ones you are watching.

It’s not that hard to find examples. There are even left leaning reporters who are truly dumbfounded by the spin. https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1300243540497166341?s=20

Which examples and which left-leaning reporters?

Re: Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

#319

Post by nickthemagicman »

eplanit wrote: post #50
nickthemagicman wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The line seems to becoming increasingly blurred these days.

I advocate for something like consumer warning labels on products: you cannot call something Aspirin unless it is truly, chemically Aspirin. Nobody should be able to label their product "News" unless it is strictly Who/What/When/Where; also, opinion and editorial should be required to be labeled clearly as such. Something akin to the Fairness Doctrine (now defunct) might be a place to start. A thorny issue to discuss…

This is great.

How much healthy information vs how much sugary fructose information!

Going to repeat this to hopefully spread the idea.

Re: Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper (1807)

#320

Post by djur »

SQueeeeeL wrote: post #227
TheGrim-888 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really disheartening. Until recently I lived in Capitol Hill, Seattle, 4 or 5 blocks away from CHAZ/CHOP. I saw with my own eyes what was happening. I saw with my own eyes buildings get set on fire multiple times within a block of my apartment. I saw with my own eyes the riots, looting, violence, nightly political shows of force. Just two days ago they were molotov cocktailing a police precinct. There's even vid…

It's not that I don't believe you, it's that I would love to see the videos of this happening and not just you promising me super hard that you saw it with my own eyes (which you somehow dropped 4 times in your post)

I've had people online tell me that I definitely could not have seen the numerous peaceful protests that have happened in Portland, and that I'm a lying shill for observing that the city I live in is in fact not a burnt-out hellhole patrolled by antifa death squads.
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