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Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

psychologytoday.com

231–240 of 272 posts

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#231
I used to get severely depressed, and it was often stress-related; adversity, work, even sickness would make things worse. I completely changed my lifestyle and started working out almost 3 hours a day (walking counts)in addition to removing carbohydrates from my diet almost entirely. After this change, I only get depressed for a second, then I realize I can take action, and then I take action, and it leads to happiness.

YMMV.

my personal theory is that it's related to bacteria in your gut--working out helps promote a good gut microbiome (this is well studied) and removing carbohydrates removes all those bacteria such as lactobactilla which will literally cause psychological changes, these bacteria are part of the metabolic process converting carbohydrates to blood glucose, and they are literally interacting with the nerves in your gut making you feel depressed. It's a biological thing. Psychology never helped me, instead it actively harmed me. The lectures of Robert Sapolsky and the concepts of cognitive behavioral therapy helped the most from the psychological perspective, however. This combination of advice is purely anecdotal of course, but all the steps I took have been widely studied. It's hard to create an industry around the removal of a product, I guess.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#232
post #16

Here's a personal anecdote of the moment when I realized that perhaps mental disorders are not disorders at all: A few years ago I had a job that made me deeply unhappy. The unhappiness came about gradually, but in my last year there it was overwhelming. In my last year on the job I spent a good chunk of my working hours holding back feelings of deep frustration and anger over how things were progressing and over how…

The sad fact about anti-depressants is they prolong depression for the average person who takes them. Yes, the average person recovers from depression without anti-depressants, but taking anti-depressants stifles that.

I can only theorize, so grain of salt, but I've noticed people who are on anti-depressants are less likely to work on their issues, improving and growing. Many get satisfied in that semi-depressed state. This might be why taking an anti-depressant can prolong depression.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#233
post #92
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I agree. But the signal is still the disorder that needs to be fixed. Any psychiatrist will tell you that psychiatric medications only treat the symptoms of mood disorders and that they do not know the cause of most of them. It is hogwash that they think mood disorders are "only chemical imbalances in the brain". They know these disorders are polygenic and environmental. But for some people, a short dose of SSR…

Are you familiar with what it’s like to have depression? It’s not something you can really ever get rid of, even if you can mitigate it with medication and lifestyle changes. It’s there, though not dominant, even when things are going well and even when you’re in a positive mood. I struggle with similar feelings, and the idea that depression becomes something that is there but can be put to positive use absolutely tr…

This probably varies by the person.

Some people might get a single episode, then get through it one way or another, and never have another one.

Others might have a lifelong tendency or vulnerability to it, and in that sense it might always be there in the background. I'm fairly certain I was more or less depressed (although not diagnosed) in my teenage years and early 20's. In my later 20's things were brighter, although I probably had a tendency for some amount of depression, especially during the darker winter months of the year (I live in the north). However, there were definitely times when I wouldn't have considered myself depressed. I'm not sure I'd even say it was "there" at those times, in the sense of being actively present in any way, even in a non-dominant way.

Later on, I got another deeper episode of depression that I'm still battling.

Yet other people might have it always there in some way, as you say.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#234

Trying to decide if mental disorders are disorders or adaptations is a false dichotomy. They can be both. For example, the 'dark triad', narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy, can help an individual succeed. Studies have shown that women are attracted to these personality traits in men. On a group level, anxiety in individuals may be evolutionarily advantageous to the group while being disadvantageous to the…

The key criteria for something to be called a psychological disorder is it has to hurt the patient in some way, causing them a disadvantage in life.

To flesh this out:

>Studies have shown that women are attracted to these personality traits in men.

Woman are attracted to men who are as successful or are more successful as them. NPDs and ASPDs (though more rare than NPDs) can fake being successful and others fall for it. This relationship is often short lived once they realize they were tricked.

The most common form of employment for someone who is ASPD (what you're calling psychopathy) is being a homeless alcoholic. The second most common is being in prison. The leading theory is ASPD is an adult who did not grow out of their terrible twos. This does not help an individual succeed in any shape or form. ASPDs do not and can not maintain relationships for a long period of time, and the few high functioning ones not in prison or homeless roam around like nomads from town to town leaving once they are no longer welcome.

Machiavellianism is a philosophy or a set of beliefs. It is not a psychological disorder. It does not harm the belief holder. Machiavellianism is a sort of game theory on a macro nationwide scale.

I can continue with NPD (narcissistic personality disorder), but I can assure you in the long run it does not benefit them. They believe manipulating people is better for them and will jump through mental hoops to justify their behavior to themselves. When someone is thought of as a con artist or a gold digger, that is most likely someone who is NPD.

>On a group level, anxiety in individuals may be evolutionarily advantageous

Anxiety is assuming (usually unconsciously) a negative outcome will happen. It's a danger feeling. When anxiety moves from a rare feeling to a disorder, it's because they're overly assuming/believing faulty futures. This can come from faulty logic, or being told incorrect beliefs during childhood, or many other situations. Anxiety as a disorder has no advantage to the user.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#235
post #158

Out of necessity (after existing conventional treatments offered little help) I've been conducting a 10+ year self-experiment related to this topic. Like others have described, when I started experiencing symptoms of conditions resembling anxiety, depression, ADHD, mild bipolar, paranoia and CFS/ME, I initially sought mainstream medical psychiatric treatment and undertook talk therapy and was prescribed anti-anxiety…

This is known as psychodynamic therapy for others who want a name for it. There are therapists that specialize in it. I must warn you its a very long type of therapy with a lot of sessions, so it will cost you $$$. Also some people use it as a weekly whining session for years and never get anywhere with it, so please go into it trying to get results.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#236
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Largely because articles like this generally focus on what I think of as “layman’s depression”, or “layman’s anxiety.” That is, a mild form of the condition that straddles the gray area between “personality” and “mild personality disorder,” that diminishes quality of life in a perceptible but not devastating way. Then you go work on a psych floor and meet people whose depression is so severe it induces catatonia; peo…

Interpreting that as “an adaptive response” is ridiculous. An adaptive response “taken too far”, on the other hand, is the very definition of wide swaths of disease - autoimmune, cancer, etc. These two statements don't add up for me. If you do accept that various autoimmune disorders and cancers are essentially adaptive responses taken too far, then why can't depression similarly be considered the same? Or is your po…

You don't have depression if you really hate your job / university degree / sad your mom died, you just hate your job / sad your mom died.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Largely because articles like this generally focus on what I think of as “layman’s depression”, or “layman’s anxiety.” That is, a mild form of the condition that straddles the gray area between “personality” and “mild personality disorder,” that diminishes quality of life in a perceptible but not devastating way. Then you go work on a psych floor and meet people whose depression is so severe it induces catatonia; peo…

> That is, a mild form of the condition that straddles the gray area between “personality” and “mild personality disorder,” that diminishes quality of life in a perceptible but not devastating way. I otherwise agree with your comment, but depression and anxiety aren't personality disorders or personality related at all. Depression is an affective disorder. Anxiety is its own class of disorder.

You’re quite right. That was a typo/brain fart, and by the time I noticed it my comment was past editing.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> about something that isn't really in the present Or is it? Therapy, especially gestalt or existential, often makes people realise that something really is off with their outlook on life, relationships with other people or other things like this — something that they had paid no attention to and perceived as "normal", that really wasn't. And in the end, what started as their fight against depression ended up as work…

Can you give an example, personal or otherwise?

Often the "answers" to why one is depressed can be hidden under many layers. It can be from a psychological source, a physiological/neurological source (an injury, etc), or a physiological source BROUGHT ON BY a psychological source, that may or may not continue to exist.

The last part is in my experience the thing people are missing that creates a lot of arguments, especially around medication. I have gone through lots of trauma growing up, and I only recently learned of the role of the interplay between the physical and the mental. I had always eschewed medication - and I still think it to be /mostly/ a first-aid treatment. There's nothing to say that someone has a long-term physiological imbalance, or one that we don't know how to treat. Therefore its valid if someone needs to be on a medication for the long term. The saying goes amongst people I know - "If you can't make your own neurochemicals, store bought is fine.".

For me, medication allowed the relative calm in order to directly tackle and address childhood trauma and patterns of thinking that ultimately result in acute depression and anxiety. Unawareness of those triggers or ways to deal with them leads that acute depression/anxiety to become chronic over time, where no trigger is necessary.

CBT (cognative behavioral therapy) is a very good way to identify patterns of thoughts or thinking that doesn't make sense, or create a reaction that is far outside of the range that a person would expect. You end up having this moments of unclear thoughts when digging into past events, or things that upset you, or thoughts about yourself. I have learned to relish those - that means I'm learning something or making a connection that I didn't have before.

Finally, approaching entirely from the psychological side does not always give results. Having gone through lots and lots of cognative behavioral therapy, I'm fully aware when I'm being irrational or have a stronger than expected emotional reaction to things. I even apologize while I'm doing it! But it wasn't until I dug into a different type of therapy, EMDR, that started to approach from the physical side of things. I started to learn to notice things that were making my hands ball up in anger, even though I didn't notice them before. I learned that I dissociate sometimes and don't form memories of when I'm upset, which severely hampers my ability to address the things. All of this to say, its complex. It all has underlying rational reasons behind it, and seeking out information and building your own mental model of, well, your mental model, is a very helpful way to go about it, though it takes a long time.

So try medication, try therapy, try different types of therapy. Its extremely difficult. Its sort of like performing surgery on yourself. But there is always another path and more things to learn about yourself.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#239
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you see, I was hospitalized several times for my mood disorder. I have come to find out that there was an objective external cause of that as well. The problem is not with the psychiatric "cures", the problem is the psychiatrists. It took a test to LOOK at my brain chemistry form them to see what was going on with me. It took 25 years of convincing them to give me the test. THAt is the disorder. Shitty life exper…

>Shitty life experiences, and almost every environmental input, will affect chemicals in our brain and body. I think that is a key point many people fail to see. Our present moment (including our thoughts and beliefs in the present moment) determine what chemicals get released in the brain. Calling something a chemical disorder is overlooking correlation is not causation. (That does not imply pills can not be helpful…

I was recently diagnosed with a genetic condition, GCH1 deficiency, which lowers the amount of serotonin and dopamine I make and increases the amount of trace amines. (Trace amines are similar to methamphetamines.)

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#240

I'm most surprised to learn that this _isn't_ the current prevailing view in the medical profession. I am not a doctor, but it's always seemed more natural to me to view depression and anxiety as adaptive behaviours - albeit perhaps ones that can end up being triggered too far. I read an article once (wish I could find it) that one advantage of mild depression was as sort a "call for help and support" from other embe…

I'm not a doctor, but I was also very surprised that this is "news" to the medical world. I has just always assumed that this was a well known thing, because it just seems completely logical to me. Just asking "what could the evolutionary purpose of depression be?" should already lead to the conclusion that it's most likely a mental defense mechanism, or byproduct of one, that can most likely be triggered by experien…

There is no a priori reason to think depression has an "evolutionary purpose" any more than to think a broken bone does.
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