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Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

psychologytoday.com

171–180 of 272 posts

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#171
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this actually IS the prevailing view, but it is not really actionable. What is the alternative to drugs? A real advantage of depression is you won't challenge authority so you'll be more likely to appease the Alpha members of the group. So what? How would this help a doctor treat a mental health patient?

> What is the alternative to drugs? A social safety net. A society that thinks providing the communication resources and facilities for people with common interests to socialize about those interests is as important as providing highways. > How would this help a doctor treat a mental health patient? You don't have to be a doctor to dispense pills. You can always anesthetize people who are panicking, but I'm not sure…

> A social safety net.

I believe this would be great. But perhaps not, perhaps this was only in the what Ovid calls the Golden Age -- perhaps small communities of hunter-gatherers, perhaps never in the way we imagined.

But I don't see this happening unless we revert to much smaller communities.

I think we could realistically cut world military spending by 90% before we could offer everybody that social safety net.

So we DO need pills, because we cannot realistically offer 1 in X the support they need, the best we can do is offer pills that work long enough that they help themselves or some psychotherapy.

Psychotherapy can be greatly helped in a lot of cases by pills.

I have seen the light when I started experimenting with drugs(illegal and legal) -- it is such an incredible release to know you have the power to change your mental state, even if chemically.

Having a Xanax in my walled, completely stopped my panic attacks, I haven't had one in years.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#172
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an unconvincing rephrasing though. The benefits of hard (rewarding?) work to mental health seem obvious [to me subjectively ofc]

It seems you're equating the requirement for a job with hard and rewarding work. What makes you think people won't do hard or rewarding work without the forced incentive of housing? What makes you think most people are doing "hard" and "rewarding" work at their jobs?

incentives drive outcomes- incentives to work cause people people to work [paid or unpaid, for pleasure or profit]. I wasn't making judgements on the reasons we need to work, only taking issue with the idea that working was causing depression.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#173
post #121
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but that attitude is extremely dangerous. Maybe you have a less severe case that's manageable without treatment but that's not the case for everyone. Mania states are actively brain damaging and can blow into full-on psychosis. There is no lifestyle change, diet or essential oil that's going to stop that from happening for folks with a severe bipolar disorder, which is absolutely a disease since it destroys you…

> Spreading such misinformation can lead to people not seeking treatment and getting hurt. Misinformation? Unless you have expert knowledge in that domain - and unless the alternatives podgaj describes have been exhaustively eliminated by a body of peer-reviewed research - you have absolutely no justification to label that as misinformation.

> and unless the alternatives podgaj describes have been exhaustively eliminated by a body of peer-reviewed research - you have absolutely no justification to label that as misinformation.

That's not how that should work. If I say that my farts cure cancer, it's not the job of peer-review research to disprove me, and until then we all just assume that the information I'm giving is good.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#174
post #158

Out of necessity (after existing conventional treatments offered little help) I've been conducting a 10+ year self-experiment related to this topic. Like others have described, when I started experiencing symptoms of conditions resembling anxiety, depression, ADHD, mild bipolar, paranoia and CFS/ME, I initially sought mainstream medical psychiatric treatment and undertook talk therapy and was prescribed anti-anxiety…

I completely agree. In my experience, most therapists have been given very powerful tools but are not really equipped to handle them. It has led me to understanding these concepts much like you. As for this:

as Jung said, "making the unconscious conscious"

I may be misquoting but "until you make the unconcious concious, it will control you life and you will call it fate." Or something close to that. I agree, we often do things for reasons we dont fully understand. We can offer an explanation that sounds plausible, but there may well be more to it that even we haven't really explored.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#175
“there is little in our evolutionary history that accounts for children sitting at desks quietly while watching a teacher do math equations at a board.”

In the section that discusses labels, I am particularly struck by this quote. So many things in our evolutionary history seem contrary to the way we live, learn, and interact. Perhaps this is the catalyst that ignites the evolutionary flames. I often think that we are just hitting our heads against a wall and expecting different results other than a bloody head.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#176
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this actually IS the prevailing view, but it is not really actionable. What is the alternative to drugs? A real advantage of depression is you won't challenge authority so you'll be more likely to appease the Alpha members of the group. So what? How would this help a doctor treat a mental health patient?

A combination of targeted therapy and short courses of drugs designed to ease the therapy process and control symptoms in the short term?

That is also common knowledge and practice.

My point when I said it is not actionable -- was that removing adversity is actually impossible most of the time, the therapist/psychiatrist has to give the client/patient the tools so he can help himself out, to better cope with adversity.

The therapist knows you're anxious because you had shitty parents, because you have a shitty boss and so on and so on, but that knowledge in itself is not actionable.

It would be great if we all stopped being pricks to one another, make a big circle and hug eachother, but since that's not going to happen anytime soon, we have to learn how to cope with adversity.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#177

At first I viewed the depression I started fighting in my teens as a scourge, a defect, something broken to be fixed. I have since come to see it as an important signal. When I am managing my life and mental states well, it often fades into the background. When it starts to flare up, like with some kind of physical pain, that's telling me I need to pay attention and change things up a bit. Furthermore - and perhaps m…

Is it really better than death? to me, death means salvation, I'll no longer have to deal with troubles.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#178

I'm most surprised to learn that this _isn't_ the current prevailing view in the medical profession. I am not a doctor, but it's always seemed more natural to me to view depression and anxiety as adaptive behaviours - albeit perhaps ones that can end up being triggered too far. I read an article once (wish I could find it) that one advantage of mild depression was as sort a "call for help and support" from other embe…

I'm not a doctor, but I was also very surprised that this is "news" to the medical world. I has just always assumed that this was a well known thing, because it just seems completely logical to me. Just asking "what could the evolutionary purpose of depression be?" should already lead to the conclusion that it's most likely a mental defense mechanism, or byproduct of one, that can most likely be triggered by experien…

There are lots of obvious and completely logical things about the world, like the sun and planets go around the earth, animals cannot feel pain, and insects form spontaneously from rotten matter. But some of them are not correct despite being obvious and logical to everyone, and thus we have science.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#179
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> about something that isn't really in the present Or is it? Therapy, especially gestalt or existential, often makes people realise that something really is off with their outlook on life, relationships with other people or other things like this — something that they had paid no attention to and perceived as "normal", that really wasn't. And in the end, what started as their fight against depression ended up as work…

For some people, these diseases (depression, anxiety, ADHD, bipolar, schizophrenia, OCD, intermittent explosive disorder, etc.) are lifelong maladies present from birth; where even if the disease only “showed up” later on, it is known from the person’s genetics/neuroanatomy/etc. that it was inevitable for this person to get them, eventually, regardless of environment or lifestyle. Such cases are no more adaptive than…

I would hesitate before calling these conditions "lifelong maladies present from birth". It's much more accurate to call them predispositions that may or may not manifest. And even so, the degree of manifestation may depend on the degree of trauma, addiction, or other challenges the person happens to face in life. This variation is what makes me doubt any clean division into adaptive/maladaptive cases. Not everyone so predisposed is triggered into these mental reactions through their life experiences, and not everyone who is so diagnosed is a lost cause, and furthermore, those who can manage their conditions may take offence at being called "malfunctioning" when they did in fact "adapt".

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may make sense for you in particular, but it a lot of people the signal provided by depression is distinct in its persistent alarm about something that isn't really in the present. Listening to the signal and stopping to take stock of it and make changes is often what makes depression so paralyzing, since it is characteristic of it that this doesnt help. Depression for most people is that "stop, stop, rest" happ…

> about something that isn't really in the present Or is it? Therapy, especially gestalt or existential, often makes people realise that something really is off with their outlook on life, relationships with other people or other things like this — something that they had paid no attention to and perceived as "normal", that really wasn't. And in the end, what started as their fight against depression ended up as work…

Can you give an example, personal or otherwise?
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