Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study • Hacker News Board

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#121

Post by ColanR » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 2:00 PM UTC

Pelic4n wrote: post #86

podgaj wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, yes, I said the same thing in another reply. I am Bipolar getting by without meds. I do not have a disorder, I have a difference. So I need to live and eat differently.

Sorry but that attitude is extremely dangerous. Maybe you have a less severe case that's manageable without treatment but that's not the case for everyone. Mania states are actively brain damaging and can blow into full-on psychosis. There is no lifestyle change, diet or essential oil that's going to stop that from happening for folks with a severe bipolar disorder, which is absolutely a disease since it destroys you…

> Spreading such misinformation can lead to people not seeking treatment and getting hurt.

Misinformation? Unless you have expert knowledge in that domain - and unless the alternatives podgaj describes have been exhaustively eliminated by a body of peer-reviewed research - you have absolutely no justification to label that as misinformation.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#122

Post by hexxiiiz » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 2:01 PM UTC

slfnflctd wrote: post #52

At first I viewed the depression I started fighting in my teens as a scourge, a defect, something broken to be fixed. I have since come to see it as an important signal. When I am managing my life and mental states well, it often fades into the background. When it starts to flare up, like with some kind of physical pain, that's telling me I need to pay attention and change things up a bit. Furthermore - and perhaps m…

This may make sense for you in particular, but it a lot of people the signal provided by depression is distinct in its persistent alarm about something that isn't really in the present. Listening to the signal and stopping to take stock of it and make changes is often what makes depression so paralyzing, since it is characteristic of it that this doesnt help. Depression for most people is that "stop, stop, rest" happening indefinitely. This is not to say that what works for you doesn't work for you. But, in general, treating depression like an important signal of something really wrong in one's life that one needs to stop and address before moving forward is pretty much depression itself.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#123

Post by BurningFrog » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 2:02 PM UTC

montagg wrote: post #92

podgaj wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I agree. But the signal is still the disorder that needs to be fixed. Any psychiatrist will tell you that psychiatric medications only treat the symptoms of mood disorders and that they do not know the cause of most of them. It is hogwash that they think mood disorders are "only chemical imbalances in the brain". They know these disorders are polygenic and environmental. But for some people, a short dose of SSR…

Are you familiar with what it’s like to have depression? It’s not something you can really ever get rid of, even if you can mitigate it with medication and lifestyle changes. It’s there, though not dominant, even when things are going well and even when you’re in a positive mood. I struggle with similar feelings, and the idea that depression becomes something that is there but can be put to positive use absolutely tr…

> Are you familiar with what it’s like to have depression?

Pretty sure there are many distinct conditions that we now call "depression".

Your description is very true for some of them, and not at all for others.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#124

Post by podgaj » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 2:04 PM UTC

_jal wrote: post #108

podgaj wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no diseases, only symptoms. We can name diseases forever but that gets us nowhere. They just have more depression, or are more depressed. By the way, why don't people get SSRI's when they are depressed with a flu? I mean that is caused my lower serotonin as well. So for some reason we accept that depression because we have a reason for it? https://www.inverse.com/article/40843-what-f-lu-do-es-t-o-yo... You…

> By the way, why don't people get SSRI's when they are depressed with a flu? One reason is SSRIs typically require a a few weeks to reach effective levels in your system; about how long it takes to recover from the flu. > depression is fundamentally and immune disorder You appear to be playing a free association game with words, not describing reality.

The idea that it take weeks for antidepressants to reach 'effective levels" is a misunderstanding of the science. It is is true for MOST people that, for example, fluoxetine and its metabolite, norfluoxetine will be at a certain level in the serum before they have resolution of symptoms, but this is not the case for all people.

It takes a very small dose to inhibit serotonin reuptake and this will happen with the first dose.

https://www.nature.com/articles/1395757 "The single dose caused only a slight increase in drug plasma concentrations but relatively clear changes in sleep structure."

And I was hoping you would all chime in and say it is useless for the flu. Because it might be very helpful

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120727171919.h...

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#125

Post by tremon » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 2:07 PM UTC

Pelic4n wrote: post #119

podgaj wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less sever case!!! Ahahahahhah! Uhm, no, I assure you this is not the case. Hospitalized four times, suicide attempts, psychosis, hallucination, on permanent disability, my mother and brothers have it and attempted suicide, my nephew, suicide. At one pint I was on lithium, zyprexa, lamictal, and prozac all at the same time. They also thought I had MS at times because of all the neurological stuff that was happening.…

Thanks for your insights and sorry for having supposed you had a less severe case, but all of that happened to you and you think it's not a disorder or a disease ?

Stop labeling someone who doesn't want to be labeled.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#126

Post by podgaj » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 2:07 PM UTC

montagg wrote: post #92

podgaj wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I agree. But the signal is still the disorder that needs to be fixed. Any psychiatrist will tell you that psychiatric medications only treat the symptoms of mood disorders and that they do not know the cause of most of them. It is hogwash that they think mood disorders are "only chemical imbalances in the brain". They know these disorders are polygenic and environmental. But for some people, a short dose of SSR…

Are you familiar with what it’s like to have depression? It’s not something you can really ever get rid of, even if you can mitigate it with medication and lifestyle changes. It’s there, though not dominant, even when things are going well and even when you’re in a positive mood. I struggle with similar feelings, and the idea that depression becomes something that is there but can be put to positive use absolutely tr…

Please read my other posts. I have a 35 year history of hospitalizations for both manic and depressive episodes and I have attempted suicide twice. I have lived with 9 month long depressions where all I could do was watch cartoons and not enough energy to even brush my teeth.

If one cannot get rid of depression then one cannot get rid of heart disease or cancer.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#127

Post by elliekelly » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 2:10 PM UTC

podgaj wrote: post #85

1_player wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How common is that extreme form of depression? Sounds like we need two different names for two very different diseases (or perhaps only one is actually a disease)

There are no diseases, only symptoms. We can name diseases forever but that gets us nowhere. They just have more depression, or are more depressed. By the way, why don't people get SSRI's when they are depressed with a flu? I mean that is caused my lower serotonin as well. So for some reason we accept that depression because we have a reason for it? https://www.inverse.com/article/40843-what-f-lu-do-es-t-o-yo... You…

> You see, depression is fundamentally and immune disorder. We react negatively to something in the environment, like a bad job or marriage.

This is an atrociously overly simplistic statement. There are plenty of people who suffer from depression despite having everything going for them. A person can have not a single thing in the world to complain about and still have depression.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#128

Post by podgaj » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 2:13 PM UTC

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #111

podgaj wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no diseases, only symptoms. We can name diseases forever but that gets us nowhere. They just have more depression, or are more depressed. By the way, why don't people get SSRI's when they are depressed with a flu? I mean that is caused my lower serotonin as well. So for some reason we accept that depression because we have a reason for it? https://www.inverse.com/article/40843-what-f-lu-do-es-t-o-yo... You…

> You see, depression is fundamentally and immune disorder. That's a lot of certainty for something that is still very much uncertain. > By the way, why don't people get SSRI's when they are depressed with a flu? Because that's a short term, acute condition that will get better on its own? That's the same as saying "People in the hospital who can't breath are given oxygen, so why aren't runners who are breathing hard…

More certain than ever actually:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266635462...

Regarding oxygen use during running, it is already something: https://trainright.com/hyperoxic-training-little-know-traini...

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#129

Post by auganov » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 2:14 PM UTC

tsimionescu wrote: post #98

holidayacct wrote: post #90

Anxiety is a disorder of the nervous system that is a by-product of civilization. We are one of the only mammals that gets anxiety, if you get anxiety in the wild you won't be alive much longer. Depression and PTSD are not responses to adversity. If you face adversity and suffer depression or PTSD you were raised psychologically weak in a way that is dangerous to you. There are people who have survived civil wars, dr…

> There are people who have survived civil wars, drought and mass starvation all over the world that don't have these problems get out of your bubble. And similarly, there are people who have been traumatized by the same events. In fact, there are war heroes who have taken bullets for their comrades, saved platoons, jumped at the enemy, and have been stricken with PTSD - if you think these people are "weak", then you…

If you have two people subject to same circumstances and one experiences significantly more distress they are weaker in some sense.

Doesn't mean they're less virtuous in what they have done. But obviously everybody should strive to be the one that comes out unscathed.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#130

Post by podgaj » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 2:15 PM UTC

slothtrop wrote: post #112

least wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different treatments affect different people differently. This isn't particularly controversial, but the layman suggesting that they know better than scientists/doctors is kind of dangerous. There is of course room to be skeptical and ultimately you know what's going on better in your head than anyone else does, but that's not really actionable across an entire population of people suffering from something similar to…

> the layman suggesting that they know better than scientists/doctors is kind of dangerous That's a strawman.

Thank you. Yes, a strawman and so frustrating since I literally have the metabolic and genetic proof that I found out what was causing my mood disorder. And as a result the doctors are providing better and different treatment. This what this "layman" discovered.