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Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

psychologytoday.com

111–120 of 272 posts

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#111
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How common is that extreme form of depression? Sounds like we need two different names for two very different diseases (or perhaps only one is actually a disease)

There are no diseases, only symptoms. We can name diseases forever but that gets us nowhere. They just have more depression, or are more depressed. By the way, why don't people get SSRI's when they are depressed with a flu? I mean that is caused my lower serotonin as well. So for some reason we accept that depression because we have a reason for it? https://www.inverse.com/article/40843-what-f-lu-do-es-t-o-yo... You…

> You see, depression is fundamentally and immune disorder.

That's a lot of certainty for something that is still very much uncertain.

> By the way, why don't people get SSRI's when they are depressed with a flu?

Because that's a short term, acute condition that will get better on its own? That's the same as saying "People in the hospital who can't breath are given oxygen, so why aren't runners who are breathing hard?" Because long term major depressive disorder is totally different than having a down couple of days.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#112
post #105
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less sever case!!! Ahahahahhah! Uhm, no, I assure you this is not the case. Hospitalized four times, suicide attempts, psychosis, hallucination, on permanent disability, my mother and brothers have it and attempted suicide, my nephew, suicide. At one pint I was on lithium, zyprexa, lamictal, and prozac all at the same time. They also thought I had MS at times because of all the neurological stuff that was happening.…

Different treatments affect different people differently. This isn't particularly controversial, but the layman suggesting that they know better than scientists/doctors is kind of dangerous. There is of course room to be skeptical and ultimately you know what's going on better in your head than anyone else does, but that's not really actionable across an entire population of people suffering from something similar to…

> the layman suggesting that they know better than scientists/doctors is kind of dangerous

That's a strawman.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#113
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I agree. But the signal is still the disorder that needs to be fixed. Any psychiatrist will tell you that psychiatric medications only treat the symptoms of mood disorders and that they do not know the cause of most of them. It is hogwash that they think mood disorders are "only chemical imbalances in the brain". They know these disorders are polygenic and environmental. But for some people, a short dose of SSR…

>It is hogwash that they think mood disorders are "only chemical imbalances in the brain". Who are you quoting here? What psychiatrists think this? AFAIK, this hasn't been the meta for a long time.

No, I agree with you. I do not find psychiatrists believe that mood disorders are only chemical imbalances in the brain.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#114

I'm most surprised to learn that this _isn't_ the current prevailing view in the medical profession. I am not a doctor, but it's always seemed more natural to me to view depression and anxiety as adaptive behaviours - albeit perhaps ones that can end up being triggered too far. I read an article once (wish I could find it) that one advantage of mild depression was as sort a "call for help and support" from other embe…

Largely because articles like this generally focus on what I think of as “layman’s depression”, or “layman’s anxiety.” That is, a mild form of the condition that straddles the gray area between “personality” and “mild personality disorder,” that diminishes quality of life in a perceptible but not devastating way. Then you go work on a psych floor and meet people whose depression is so severe it induces catatonia; peo…

> I find the “gosh it’s just cultural mismatch” theory to be a modern stigma against mental disease. You can break any bone or system in the body - except for neuro/behavioral, that’s just another type of person that needs some cultural adaptation.

Also ties into minimization of mental illness, which is a form of stigma!

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#115

I'm most surprised to learn that this _isn't_ the current prevailing view in the medical profession. I am not a doctor, but it's always seemed more natural to me to view depression and anxiety as adaptive behaviours - albeit perhaps ones that can end up being triggered too far. I read an article once (wish I could find it) that one advantage of mild depression was as sort a "call for help and support" from other embe…

Largely because articles like this generally focus on what I think of as “layman’s depression”, or “layman’s anxiety.” That is, a mild form of the condition that straddles the gray area between “personality” and “mild personality disorder,” that diminishes quality of life in a perceptible but not devastating way. Then you go work on a psych floor and meet people whose depression is so severe it induces catatonia; peo…

The examples you have given seem to be outliers where the system "human" broke out of its basic parameters, causing multiple other subsystems to fire out of control.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#116

I'm most surprised to learn that this _isn't_ the current prevailing view in the medical profession. I am not a doctor, but it's always seemed more natural to me to view depression and anxiety as adaptive behaviours - albeit perhaps ones that can end up being triggered too far. I read an article once (wish I could find it) that one advantage of mild depression was as sort a "call for help and support" from other embe…

Going with a very medicalized framework could very well be an adaptive behavior on part of the professionals too.

The common sense approach makes it much harder to build a rich field of scientific looking knowledge and products.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#117
post #73
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember reading an article like that. Also, it's a bit of a meme that if depression was 100% harmful then it would already be eliminated by evolution. I mean why shouldn't people prone to depression die off? Don't make a mistake, I'm still working on improving my life and uncovering the root causes. It is a silent thief of life.

The appendix is 100% harmful but not eliminated. As is nearsightedness. Evolution is only affected by genotypes that prevent reproduction.

That's a rather antiquated view. Nowadays, the appendix is considered an active organ again, essentially a spawning zone for the gut flora. I recall reading that people that still have their appendix have a more diverse gut microbiome, and more importantly, their gut flora recover more quickly after antibiotic treatments.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#118
post #16

Here's a personal anecdote of the moment when I realized that perhaps mental disorders are not disorders at all: A few years ago I had a job that made me deeply unhappy. The unhappiness came about gradually, but in my last year there it was overwhelming. In my last year on the job I spent a good chunk of my working hours holding back feelings of deep frustration and anger over how things were progressing and over how…

> I'm pretty sure that, had I gone to the therapist, I would have been diagnosed with some sort of depressive disorder and probably would have been prescribed some sort of medication

100%, everything is a nail to them. Diagnosis is really not that rigorous.

It's amazing to me that the very first course of action suggested is not lifestyle changes, but medication. But money talks and here we are with over-medicated nations.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#119
post #94
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but that attitude is extremely dangerous. Maybe you have a less severe case that's manageable without treatment but that's not the case for everyone. Mania states are actively brain damaging and can blow into full-on psychosis. There is no lifestyle change, diet or essential oil that's going to stop that from happening for folks with a severe bipolar disorder, which is absolutely a disease since it destroys you…

Less sever case!!! Ahahahahhah! Uhm, no, I assure you this is not the case. Hospitalized four times, suicide attempts, psychosis, hallucination, on permanent disability, my mother and brothers have it and attempted suicide, my nephew, suicide. At one pint I was on lithium, zyprexa, lamictal, and prozac all at the same time. They also thought I had MS at times because of all the neurological stuff that was happening.…

Thanks for your insights and sorry for having supposed you had a less severe case, but all of that happened to you and you think it's not a disorder or a disease ?

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#120
post #82

> If ADHD is not a disorder, but a mismatch with a human environment, then suddenly it’s not a medical issue. It’s an issue for educational reform. And that is a compelling thought, given the evidence that kids’ focus and cognition are improved by physical activity. Still, we need to take this study with a grain of salt. There is a large body of research showing other biological factors when it comes to ADHD. For ins…

>So speaking as someone with adult ADHD who is getting by without medication with the right lifestyle choices How do you do it exactly? Without ADHD medication I can't function on a basic level, and even then it's pretty hard. (Yes that's just ADHD, I tried every antidepressant and mood stabilizer under the sun for years before getting diagnosed with ADHD)

Well, I have the inattentive subtype, without hyperactivity or much of the associated impulsivity. So I guess I'm already in a starting point that is easier to compensate for.

I pay a lot of attention to my sleep - I'm a chronic insomniac. And keep in mind that it's not just about sleep time, it's also about sleep quality. So sleep hygiene is really crucial. No caffeine after lunch, and no alcohol in general (unless you know you can afford to be less well-rested the next day) because that might make you drowsy but it prevents entering the deep sleep cycle. Low-dosage melatonin seems to help me, not so much with falling asleep as it does with ensuring that once I do manage to sleep, I hit that "deep sleep" cycle that is absolutely necessary to recover.

I'm very sensitive to disturbances at night, noises can drive me nuts. So I spent a lot of time finding comfortable ear-plugs. They are essential for uninterrupted sleep for me, which again is crucial for hitting the deep sleep cycle.

Then there is the question of falling asleep. If I have trouble with that (which is almost every night), I get out of bed and go read in the living room, so that my brain keeps associating the bedroom with rest. Sometimes I start having ideas just before falling asleep, I then try to write those down on paper, and maybe work them out a bit - I realized that part of why late night thinking keeps me awake is that I'm afraid to forget all the ideas, so writing it down gives me peace, and doing so by hand also calms forces me to slow down. Meditation is also good for slowing down racing thoughts, but it really depends on what the thoughts in question are.

Then there's diet. I don't know if I can generalize what works for me specifically, but lots of leafy greens in general. There is evidence that berries and other sources of polyphenols help a lot with children with ADHD, and in general those are supposedly really healthy, so I figure they won't hurt me either. Avoid things that give sugar rushes/crashes. Finally I take supplements for common deficiencies that apparently disproportionately affect people with ADHD (B, zinc, magnesium).

Exercise helps because the cerebellum is involved with regulating attention. So I try to start the day with some mild exercise (like a short run) to really activate it. I've noticed that this helps with my attention regulation throughout the day. Sitting all day programming reduces activity again, so sometimes I take short "activation breaks" where I just do ten squats or burpees or whatever, not to exercise but to wake up the cerebellum.

Therapy is important. The overlap between ADHD symptoms and co-morbid/complex PTSD symptoms is large, leading me to believe that maybe people with ADHD are just more likely to end up in traumatizing situations (in my case: other kids loved to provoke temper tantrums in me) and part of their symptoms are really just a consequence of the resulting PTSD. As difficult as it was to process my past, therapy helped me a lot. It seems to have reduced some of my ADHD symptoms a bit, but even if it didn't: someone with ADHD is likely to have a lot of pain to process as a result of their condition. Doing so means having one burden less to carry, making it easier to cope with the remaining issues.

One very important thing I learned: ADHD means that inevitably I will slip up at some point and forget an important appointment or something. The screw-up itself is punishment enough, so if I hate myself for always screwing up too I'm just punishing myself twice. So learn to be kind to yourself and forgive yourself when that happens, that makes it easier to pick yourself up, fix the problem, and move on when this happens.

Therapy also helped me with being better at being brutally honest about my limitations. No, I cannot plan five things in a day when I know that I can't complete more than two. If I know I'll likely forget something at home when I go somewhere, even with checklists, leave early so I can go back to pick it up when I inevitably remember I forgot it five minutes after leaving the house. Try to develop good habits. More importantly, only try to develop one habit at a time, and give it enough time to really become a habit. And so on.

And finally: use that ADHD hyperfocus to your advantage, and do deep dives into learning as much as you can about how to ADHD works and what you can do about it.

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