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Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal

politico.com

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Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal

#231

Post by darkarmani »

37383265253 wrote: post #223
ncmncm wrote: post #2

Now, when can we begin prosecuting the instigators? Presumably, after we have prosecuted those who ordered and participated in torture. (There is no statute of limitations on torture, is there?)

Why would you prosecute people who were given permission by the relevant authorities? >The call-tracking effort began without court authorization under President George W. Bush following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. So the PotUS gave them the authority. >A similar program was approved by the secretive FISA Court beginning in 2006 and renewed numerous times, but the 9th Circuit panel said those rulings were…

> As an aside, it's wildly funny to me that the ACLU won't defend free speech anymore but they'll defend terrorists and their supporters.

When has the ACLU stopped defending free speech? They defend convicted terrorists or alleged terrorists?

Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal

#232

Post by russler23 »

37383265253 wrote: post #223
ncmncm wrote: post #2

Now, when can we begin prosecuting the instigators? Presumably, after we have prosecuted those who ordered and participated in torture. (There is no statute of limitations on torture, is there?)

Why would you prosecute people who were given permission by the relevant authorities? >The call-tracking effort began without court authorization under President George W. Bush following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. So the PotUS gave them the authority. >A similar program was approved by the secretive FISA Court beginning in 2006 and renewed numerous times, but the 9th Circuit panel said those rulings were…

You’re overlooking that each office has a scope of authority. The relevant authority in this case is the Constitution, unless we are no longer a nation of law.

Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal

#233

Post by CamperBob2 »

ndesaulniers wrote: post #198
chard_slicks_ wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will Clapper's perjury ever be punished?

I wonder if Clapper established that you could lie before US Congress without consequence, or if there are earlier instances?

If you're a baseball player [1], you'd better come clean when hauled before Congress, or the consequences will be severe.

If what you do actually matters, then meh, whatever, it's all good.

1: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-baseball-clemens/clemens-...

Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal

#234

Post by coretx »

lehi wrote: post #166
ncmncm wrote: post #2

Now, when can we begin prosecuting the instigators? Presumably, after we have prosecuted those who ordered and participated in torture. (There is no statute of limitations on torture, is there?)

A reminder that a CIA officer who oversaw, ordered, and participated in systematic detainee torture, then wrote the order to destroy the evidential tapes of said torture, was not only not punished or prosecuted but promoted to the current Director of the agency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_CIA_interrogation_videota... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gina_Haspel

What happend with Gen. Keith Alexander?

Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal

#235

Post by uncoder0 »

205guy wrote: post #229
ndesaulniers wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if Clapper established that you could lie before US Congress without consequence, or if there are earlier instances?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_North "In July 1987, North was summoned to testify before televised hearings of a joint congressional committee that was formed to investigate the Iran–Contra scandal. During the hearings, North admitted that he had misled Congress..." One of the sources explains that when congress investigated the Iran-Contra scandal, it granted Oliver North immunity for what he would say. From o…

Pardon my ignorance. How can Congress grant immunity from the Judiciary? I thought that was only a power that resided in the Executive?

Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal

#236

Post by dang »

enjoyyourlife wrote: post #169
dang wrote: post #3

We've changed the URL from https://www.aclu.org/legal-document/united-states-v-moalin-n... to an article that gives more background. The link to the decision is an excellent thing to post, but usually it's best as a supplement to a general article (if one can be found) that establishes context.

The article is form https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/02/court-rules-nsa-pho...

Ok, we'll change to that from https://news.yahoo.com/court-rules-nsa-phone-snooping-181157..., which links to that. Thanks!

Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal

#237

Post by _8j50 »

shalmanese wrote: post #94
hinkley wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was young and dreamed of being a rock star^W^W entrepreneur I used to pay more attention to contract law. It seems like everywhere from roommate, landlord, business, or partnership contracts, we seem to write down rules but not consequences or penalties. Oh you were supposed to pay rent or this invoice, but I can't make you do it? What's the point of contracts? The time I owned property with someone, I at leas…

The mark of a civil society is laws without punishments. Low trust societies have to build in enforcement mechanisms for everything because if you don't, someone will cheat you for the slightest advantage and life inside them is punishingly inefficient. High trust societies rely on people to do the right thing out of a sense of civic pride, decency, group cohesion or some other regulating force. Look at sports for ex…

A rule that can't be enforced is not a rule but a suggestion. If people follow it is because they agree with it. Anyone can follow a rule when it is convenient, punishment exists to make sure people follow the rule when it is inconvenient.

Without punishment, it is not "rule of law" it is "guidline of law"

Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal

#238

Post by Igelau »

heimatau wrote: post #115
xxpor wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Either our founding document matters as the backbone of our Laws or it doesn't. Nitpick, the constitution isn't a founding document. There was that whole Articles of Confederation thing. Congress isn't the final authority of if laws are constitutional or not. The courts are. Congress and the Supreme Court commonly disagree on the constitutionality of laws. What you're proposing is essentially a oligarchy lead by the…

>Nitpick, the constitution isn't a founding document. There was that whole Articles of Confederation thing. Let's totally 'nitpick' because the structure that our entire government is built upon the Constitution. "The first, The Articles of Confederation, was in effect from March 1, 1781, when Maryland ratified it. The second, The Constitution, replaced the Articles when it was ratified by New Hampshire on June 21, 1…

> We vote everyday with our citizenship. You either agree to that living document or you don't by your allegiance. No one is forcing you to be a US citizen

You say that like anyone can just up and walk away. Where are you going to go? The borders are closed. If they weren't, they're going to want your tax money for a while, and if you don't like that you'll be deported and imprisoned. Disagree with any of that enough at any stage and your citizenship will be enforced with violence and death if need be.

Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal

#239

Post by ncmncm »

37383265253 wrote: post #223
ncmncm wrote: post #2

Now, when can we begin prosecuting the instigators? Presumably, after we have prosecuted those who ordered and participated in torture. (There is no statute of limitations on torture, is there?)

Why would you prosecute people who were given permission by the relevant authorities? >The call-tracking effort began without court authorization under President George W. Bush following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. So the PotUS gave them the authority. >A similar program was approved by the secretive FISA Court beginning in 2006 and renewed numerous times, but the 9th Circuit panel said those rulings were…

The POTUS does not have any such lawful authority. And they knew he didn't.

Re: Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal

#240

Post by thecureforzits »

_8j50 wrote: post #6

You know what I don't get? There is no penalty for violating the highest law of the land (the constitution). How is it anymore than a suggestion or a guidline if government officials are not punished for violating it? And that is exactly how lae enforcement and intelligence community treat it. The US constitution needs lots of updates but this maybe the most important item -- manadatory prison terms for anyone acting…

States willing to call a constitutional convention almost have the numbers to do it at this point and they lean hard right.

https://conventionofstates.com/

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