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Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

bbc.com

261–270 of 371 posts

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you support Navalany if you were aware he is a nationalist?

This does not tell the full story. He participated in a couple of "nationalist" marches, and he was long-time a proponent of abolishing visa-free regime with Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, but he gave pretty logical explanations for his views. You do not have to endorse his views, but they are at least clear and well-reasoned.

[flagged]

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you support Navalany if you were aware he is a nationalist?

I'm not a Navalany "supporter." I'm an admirer of his bravery in the face of overwhelming odds.

> I'm not a Navalany "supporter."

That's too bad.

> I'm an admirer of his bravery in the face of overwhelming odds.

Interesting. Are you consistent about that?

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#263

If you ever wonder about the extent of Russia's online efforts consider that the comments on this HN thread might be part of things. Not saying anything in here is good/bad/other but you rarely see this level of flagged and down-voted comments in a HN thread.

I doubt what you are seeing is "state-sponsored downvoting".

This is just a controversial subject as it is nationalistic and related to US politics in a roundabout way (Russian election meddling in the 2016 election).

Besides I really doubt that it matters very much what anyone writes and up/downvotes in an internet forum.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#264
post #33

Maybe I'm too skeptical, but this seems a bit too obvious to me. Why would you try to poison someone with no real threat to you and risk him becoming a martyr, using a method that immediately brings you to mind, with a nerve agent that is also strongly linked to you?

> Maybe I'm too skeptical, but this feels like a false flag thing to me. Why would you try to poison someone with no real threat to you and risk him becoming a martyr, using a method that immediately brings you to mind, with a nerve agent that is also strongly linked to you? Russia assassinates even unimportant people for revenge and intimidation. For instance: they hired assassins to kill a bunch of nobodies in Ukra…

They started to assassinate people in Ukraine much earlier. They tried to kill me from 2008 to 2019. It was not clear why they're trying to kill me (I'm nobody, low rank officer, was not in service), until they killed Mamchur, so nobody believed me at the time, until the war. With few other officers, we started informal counter-intelligence group. In 2012, I intercepted plans to destabilize situation in Ukraine. In 2013-2014, we noticed presence of Russian agents at Maidan, so I was deployed at Maidan to find Russian and drain information from them. Because of multiple attempts to kill me, I had 5 years of war-time experience in 2013, so it was easy job for me.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#265
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bin Laden’s Al Qaida was very unusual in its long term planning. Most terrorist attacks by other groups have been unsophisticated.

> Bin Laden’s Al Qaida was very unusual in its long term planning. Most terrorist attacks by other groups have been unsophisticated. And, IIRC, most recent terrorist attacks have been committed by isolated individuals who radicalized, and they only used means that a motivated regular person could assemble. They didn't have the material backing of any organization sophisticated enough to manufacture a military nerve a…

It has happened in the past. Japan had a sarin attack[0] and the US had the anthrax attacks[1].

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleph_(Japanese_cult) [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many Russian people, especially those who watch or read mainly Russian news, hold such views with complete sincerity. The internal propaganda is quite effective.

I definitely believe you. A Russian colleague, who is living in EU for several years, found it justified that Russia invaded Poland back in 1940. We were all baffled.

*39. The alternative was likely German occupation of the whole region, and from that perspective their statement makes sense.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#267
post #256

If you ever wonder about the extent of Russia's online efforts consider that the comments on this HN thread might be part of things. Not saying anything in here is good/bad/other but you rarely see this level of flagged and down-voted comments in a HN thread.

This comment breaks the site guidelines: " Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Sinister insinuation about astroturfing is the internet's favorite pastime. The overwhelming…

> countless hours looking at the data

Will you provide that data for independent review?

Edit: it's not that you shouldn't be trusted. The issue is the old “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” For example, what if a large segment of the user base, that regularly contributed extraordinarily positive engagements, existed solely for the opportunities to frame certain conversations, even in the slightest, or even in preparation for something in the distant future.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it is actually very sad, lots of their working class, really believe that Putin actually is successfully pulling it off.

You could say the same about America and Trump. The masses always will consume the propaganda, I don't see how this will ever be eliminated. Rather than sad, it's just part of the system. How can we improve the results? Is there a systems-thinking approach that takes this into account and bends it toward positive ends?

The difference is that US arguably has long been "great": great educational institution, great high-tech corps, great cinema etc.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#269
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They still have nuclear weapons. And they have enough propaganda / hybrid war capability to get Trump elected. Maybe not a world superpower but dangerous nonetheless. I'm more interested in why Russia still tries to continue Cold War and fight the West. Contrary to what many Russians believe (or at least what they write online), West is not out to get them - other than to sell them shitty products made in China with…

What do you think about the idea that it's all about Putin's revenge on USA for the attempted assassination?

Um, what attempted assassination?

I think what's really going on is the usual. If you're stealing your country blind, manufacture foreign enemies and blame them, so the people at home think you're a hero instead of a villain.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#270

I'm just eager for some international stability as the next person and I don't want the Cold War back (and I'd hope for a more Europe'zed world to be honest) but it's incredible how much reach of Russia and China tentacles the US allows these days. As a third-world citizen I'm very much surprised the US is basically on its knees hoping the two nations don't punch too hard.

As an American, I agree with you. In my experience, the US is facing an existential crisis stemming from a loud segment of the population, emboldened by Trump, that believes and promotes propaganda in a way that I thought was reserved for third world dictatorships. I'm terrified of the day after the elections. If the left wins then, we risk retaliation from the gun-and-violence-glorifying right. If the right wins, th…

The people we put in place to protect us think they're gonna make it out just fine either way. It doesn't matter who wins, because the real battle the next few years will be about defining the new rules, not playing by the old ones.

The right wing is an extreme minority that has obtained influence mostly by hacking the system. Anyone who stands up to them and patches the exploits will have a post-facto mandate, but that only happens if they have the guts to do it ("it" being things like passing airtight restrictions on legislative procedure; packing the bench; and dismantling the means by which representation is warped, like the electoral college or the filibuster).

This is why as a liberal I have little faith in Biden, Harris, Pelosi, or Schumer.

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