Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy • Hacker News Board

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#151

Post by sudosysgen » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 5:30 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #51

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've never been to Europe, I would really love to go some day, but I can only imagine the feeling of actually seeing these really old places/structures in person. European cities are also relatively young. If you want to see old cities, you should visit the Middle East or China.

Most Chinese cities are younger than Rome or Istanbul or Athens.

Most European cities are younger than Rome or Istanbul or Athens. Shanghai and Beijing are older than Rome and Istanbul, Luoyang and Xi'an were inhabited since the neolithic.

Damas, Luxor, Erbil, Jaffa, Jericho, are also older than Rome, Athens and Istanbul.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#152

Post by cgriswald » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 5:33 PM UTC

_8j50 wrote: post #142

xg15 wrote: post #111

> But it wasn’t strictly an “everything is bigger in Texas” ethos that caused Houston to sprawl the way that it does. Rather, Cold War–era urban design philosophy in the U.S. prioritized sprawl because older cities that had urbanized pre–World War II—New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Detroit—were seen as being susceptible to nuclear strikes. Less-dense cities such as Los Angeles and Houston were less likely to be…

That would be a lot of ICBMs. The city center is not residential. Most people that work in the city center for city's like houston or LA commute from one of many different cities. Just to wipe out half of houston you would need to simultaneously strike at least a dozen different locations. The idea was, if there is a missile on the way or if other cities are being attacked, the sprawl would allow evacuating a lot of…

Sparing Tokyo worked because Japan didn’t have the capability to retaliate. Any launching during the mid-to-late Cold War would have been a massive first strike and possibly a retaliation at the same scale. In the early Cold War it may have been a reasonable strategy, but as another poster notes that’s a very narrow window for changing how a city grows.

Even if there was an effect, I’d be very surprised if the signal wasn’t wiped out first by railroads and then by cars.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#153

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 5:33 PM UTC

drewbug01 wrote: post #106

adolph wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Some of Haussmann's critics said that the real purpose of Haussmann's boulevards was to make it easier for the army to maneuver and suppress armed uprisings; Paris had experienced six such uprisings between 1830 and 1848, all in the narrow, crowded streets in the center and east of Paris and on the left bank around the Pantheon. These critics argued that a small number of large, open intersections allowed easy contr…

Not directly related, but the US Interstate Highway system was at least partially designed with military concerns in mind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_System#Hist... . I'm reminded of it every time I see military vehicles on the highway. Obviously not the same thing that you're talking about here - but just interesting to me, and vaguely related!

There's a reason why the Eisenhower Interstate System signs have the 5 stars of a general.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#154

Post by ainiriand » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 5:33 PM UTC

apacheCamel wrote: post #10

>Siena’s history dates back millennia. Houston, meanwhile, was founded in 1836. Every time I am made aware of just how young the US is, it blows me away. I've never been to Europe, I would really love to go some day, but I can only imagine the feeling of actually seeing these really old places/structures in person.

When I was a kid we used to play football using the wall of a s.XI church as goal. That might be an extreme case but gives some perspective about european cities.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#155

Post by pirocks » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 5:34 PM UTC

maxsilver wrote: post #134

ebg13 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no way to go anywhere (no parking, no meaningful transport, because 'everything we'd let you have is a short walk away') It's news to me that the Paris Bus, Tram, Metro, RER, SNCF, Velib, and the venerable scooter have all suddenly vanished.

Obviously they haven't, and they remain great options for people wealthy enough to afford Parisian Townhouses. But unless you somehow gift me one million dollars USD or more (and the same to every single person I know), none of us are going to be able to afford to live anywhere in Paris that actually has close access to all of those things you've described, with the living situation described above. If we're magicall…

I don't know about Paris, but London public transport reaches almost every corner of the city. I'm making some assumptions here, but I assume you've only ever lived in an American city. You often see Americans thinking that the terrible public transit they see is what public transit is everywhere. This is very much not the case.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#156

Post by gpderetta » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 5:34 PM UTC

_8j50 wrote: post #142

xg15 wrote: post #111

> But it wasn’t strictly an “everything is bigger in Texas” ethos that caused Houston to sprawl the way that it does. Rather, Cold War–era urban design philosophy in the U.S. prioritized sprawl because older cities that had urbanized pre–World War II—New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Detroit—were seen as being susceptible to nuclear strikes. Less-dense cities such as Los Angeles and Houston were less likely to be…

That would be a lot of ICBMs. The city center is not residential. Most people that work in the city center for city's like houston or LA commute from one of many different cities. Just to wipe out half of houston you would need to simultaneously strike at least a dozen different locations. The idea was, if there is a missile on the way or if other cities are being attacked, the sprawl would allow evacuating a lot of…

> That would be a lot of ICBMs

That's what MIRVs are for.

The strategy, if it existed at all and it isn't just a post-hoc explaination, was probably designed around the time the strategic bomber was the primary, and only, method of delivery of atomic bombs.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#157

Post by fireattack » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 5:34 PM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #62

exabrial wrote: post #7

The elephant in the room is the assumption that _everyone wants to be stacked on top of each other_. I do agree that designing cities around cars has ruined a lot of nice places though.

As a European, I don't like living in the same house as 5 other families, whose sleep schedule doesn't necessarily align with mine. The acoustic isolation is probably a lot better than in typical US houses, but not perfect either. However I do like living 3 minutes from the next supermarket, and 20 minutes from the city center with all the shop, and 25 minutes from my work (all distances by foot). I would love to hav…

>25 minutes from my work

This is definitely ideal, but is it achievable (in average, not for any individual) in larger cities even if they are built for walk/public transit?

I don't have much experience in Europe, but I knew in Tokyo, which probably has the best public transit in the world, the average commute time is one hour. This is obviously an extreme example as Tokyo is a megacity, but I think majority of people cannot live 25 minutes from their work for any cities that have 1M+ populations, regardless how the city is built.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#158

Post by dylan604 » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 5:34 PM UTC

_8j50 wrote: post #142

xg15 wrote: post #111

> But it wasn’t strictly an “everything is bigger in Texas” ethos that caused Houston to sprawl the way that it does. Rather, Cold War–era urban design philosophy in the U.S. prioritized sprawl because older cities that had urbanized pre–World War II—New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Detroit—were seen as being susceptible to nuclear strikes. Less-dense cities such as Los Angeles and Houston were less likely to be…

That would be a lot of ICBMs. The city center is not residential. Most people that work in the city center for city's like houston or LA commute from one of many different cities. Just to wipe out half of houston you would need to simultaneously strike at least a dozen different locations. The idea was, if there is a missile on the way or if other cities are being attacked, the sprawl would allow evacuating a lot of…

Every single city that was targeted had multiple rockets assigned to them. Each rocket was just a launch vehicle similar to SpaceX launching Falcon9s with multiple Starlink satellite, each nuclear rocket was equipped with MIRVs (multiple independent re-entry vehicles). So one rocket launched would result in multiple targets. You could target each MIRV at different parts of the suburban sprawl. Pretty damn effective.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#159

Post by csomar » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 5:35 PM UTC

xg15 wrote: post #111

> But it wasn’t strictly an “everything is bigger in Texas” ethos that caused Houston to sprawl the way that it does. Rather, Cold War–era urban design philosophy in the U.S. prioritized sprawl because older cities that had urbanized pre–World War II—New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Detroit—were seen as being susceptible to nuclear strikes. Less-dense cities such as Los Angeles and Houston were less likely to be…

A typical nuclear bomb has a wipe-out radius of 1-2 Km. At 10-15Km radius, you are looking at damages/injuries but not a complete wipe-out. Also residential houses are less susceptible to infrastructure breakdown vs. a high-res building.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#160

Post by gpderetta » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

cgriswald wrote: post #152

_8j50 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a lot of ICBMs. The city center is not residential. Most people that work in the city center for city's like houston or LA commute from one of many different cities. Just to wipe out half of houston you would need to simultaneously strike at least a dozen different locations. The idea was, if there is a missile on the way or if other cities are being attacked, the sprawl would allow evacuating a lot of…

Sparing Tokyo worked because Japan didn’t have the capability to retaliate. Any launching during the mid-to-late Cold War would have been a massive first strike and possibly a retaliation at the same scale. In the early Cold War it may have been a reasonable strategy, but as another poster notes that’s a very narrow window for changing how a city grows. Even if there was an effect, I’d be very surprised if the signal…

Also Japan was hit by bombs in the low tens of kilotons. Modern bombs are in the megaton range.