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China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

sciencemag.org

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Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#31

Post by mensetmanusman »

fleischhauf wrote: post #15
wintermutestwin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if anyone has tried to measure repression's "drag coefficient" effect on creativity.

This is a very interesting question and one would hope that non repressive societies are more creative and have a higher scientific output. Im not 100 % sure thats the case, however.

It probably is, because the amount of distrust of others in places like China/Russia is off the charts hard for westerners to understand. That level of friction would be horrible for research.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#32

Post by im3w1l »

exdsq wrote: post #16
free_rms wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually a decent answer, thanks. But they're an economic-only organization. The EU didn't bomb Libya, France and Britain did.

One of the arguments for Brexit was that they’re becoming far more than an economic-only organisation

I think a reason that the EU is so well behaved is that the politicians know that they don't just compete with each other, they compete also with the non-existence of the EU.

With time, as it entrenches and everyone believes in their hearts that the EU is going nowhere, then it will be less nice.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#34

Post by cma »

_6fmb wrote: post #19
Taek wrote: post #7

I think this is a very good move for China and think the US should match it.

If you actually read the article we already outspend them on R&D. We spent 2.8% of GDP vs their 2.2% of GDP. They failed to meet their target of 2.5% of GDP despite steadily increasing.

But their purchasing power parity is way higher so presumably they get more for less, other than stuff they have to import to support research.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#35

Post by im3w1l »

wintermutestwin wrote: post #21
fleischhauf wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very interesting question and one would hope that non repressive societies are more creative and have a higher scientific output. Im not 100 % sure thats the case, however.

It seems to me that it would have to. If your society punishes/limits/eliminates divergent behavior and thought, you are throttling your innovation lever. I think that rising D&I budgets are a recognition of this truth. It seems like common sense to me, but I'd be interested to know if it has been studied/measured...

As long as you pay lip service to the right politics you can innovate as much as you want in science and technologies. You are free to use tabs for indentation or write your webservice in brainfuck if you want.

What can be a drag on innovation is if there is nepotism. If the leader appoints his good-for-nothing nephew to science minister. Or if there is corruption, and well connected incumbents throw up endless barriers for innovative upcomers. Or if organized crime steal too much value from the productive people.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#36

Post by mistermann »

_6fmb wrote: post #19
Taek wrote: post #7

I think this is a very good move for China and think the US should match it.

If you actually read the article we already outspend them on R&D. We spent 2.8% of GDP vs their 2.2% of GDP. They failed to meet their target of 2.5% of GDP despite steadily increasing.

I wonder how it would look if there was some magical way to view it on an ROI basis.

Rather than focusing on R&D (science & technology presumably), I'd like to see Western countries start approaching ~"the humanities" (culture, society, happiness, etc) the same way we treat technology and industry. To me it seems fairly clear that there are distinct differences at the human satisfaction level between different countries/cultures. I have the sense that Western countries are starting to fall behind in some categories, the consequences of which first began showing up in our political discourse/mood, which has now progressed to literally spilling out onto the streets. Rather than our current laissez faire approach to this aspect of life, could treating it as a serious first class intellectual problem yield positive results?

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#37

Post by SuoDuanDao »

_6fmb wrote: post #19
Taek wrote: post #7

I think this is a very good move for China and think the US should match it.

If you actually read the article we already outspend them on R&D. We spent 2.8% of GDP vs their 2.2% of GDP. They failed to meet their target of 2.5% of GDP despite steadily increasing.

Maintaining a lead could be a good idea all the same though...

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#38

Post by sudosysgen »

cma wrote: post #34
_6fmb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you actually read the article we already outspend them on R&D. We spent 2.8% of GDP vs their 2.2% of GDP. They failed to meet their target of 2.5% of GDP despite steadily increasing.

But their purchasing power parity is way higher so presumably they get more for less, other than stuff they have to import to support research.

I don't understand why this is downvoted. Money goes further in China than in the US, and the Chinese GDP PPP is indeed higher than the US, although barely.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#39

Post by sudosysgen »

gpm wrote: post #18
free_rms wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give an example of a significant power, any time in history, that did have a lot of qualms with using repression for political ends? Even the Athenians had slaves.

The US? They do it, but they have a lot of qualms about it.

Nah, the US only has qualms at all at repressing their domestic citizens. No issues repressing foreigners and some minorities since ever.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#40

Post by sudosysgen »

im3w1l wrote: post #35
wintermutestwin wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that it would have to. If your society punishes/limits/eliminates divergent behavior and thought, you are throttling your innovation lever. I think that rising D&I budgets are a recognition of this truth. It seems like common sense to me, but I'd be interested to know if it has been studied/measured...

As long as you pay lip service to the right politics you can innovate as much as you want in science and technologies. You are free to use tabs for indentation or write your webservice in brainfuck if you want. What can be a drag on innovation is if there is nepotism. If the leader appoints his good-for-nothing nephew to science minister. Or if there is corruption, and well connected incumbents throw up endless barri…

Indeed. That's why the USSR has some really good scientific research sponsored by the state while a lot of the good art was underground.
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