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Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#961

Post by Nexxxeh »

imtringued wrote: post #957
paulgb wrote: post #869

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a company like Spotify sells subscriptions both in the app and on the web, they have to charge 43% more to the in-app purchaser to get the same revenue, even though the user gets exactly the same experience. I would call that a tax (informally; I know it strictly doesn't meet the definition) and as a customer I would like to know about it.

If you don't like it then don't set up payment through Apple. Just set it on the web. Multiplatform subscriptions outside the Apple ecosystem are explicitly allowed. The reality is that users don't get to save money so they don't care.

I don't think this works in practice.

It seems Apple prevents you from embedding the website, linking to the website, directing users to that website from the app, or giving a FAQ that includes information about how the user is expected to pay via the website. Users have to guess, or already know.

Watch the struggles LTT have gone through with the Floatplane app.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#962

Post by DangitBobby »

Razengan wrote: post #778
_qulr wrote: post #387

My feeling is that this whole situation is mostly going as Tim Sweeney intended. He was itching for a fight, wanted to sue Apple. The harsher that Apple retaliates, the better Epic's court case. Apple is playing right into his hands. Did Sweeney anticipate Apple's threat to Unreal Engine? Maybe, maybe not. But the temporary restraining order did block that threat, at least for now. I don't think Epic ever intended to…

> The harsher that Apple retaliates, the better Epic's court case. Apple is playing right into his hands. Meanwhile, https://www.macrumors.com/2020/08/24/apple-stock-500/ Unity is also making a play on this, portraying the Unreal Engine as an unreliable choice because of Epic's erratic actions, and in their court filing Epic themselves complained about people leaving them in droves. (Incidentally, when I try to Googl…

How are Apple's stock prices relevant?

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#963

Post by thomed »

amingilani wrote: post #958
vr46 wrote: post #861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word "tax", when referring to Apple's fees, is a loaded and partial term. The fact that it's clear and understood and factored into the price makes it easy to complain about, but no casual customer to my knowledge has ever seriously asked what proportion of their peppermint tea and scones pays for a café's rent - overheads are overheads and margins are margins. Both companies are invoking consumers and value in t…

> no casual customer to my knowledge has ever seriously asked what proportion of their peppermint tea and scones pays for a café's rent Furthering your café analogy: • How many cafés do you think pay an annual amount + 30% of their revenue to their landlord, and may only use the landlord's payment system comprising of landlord dollaz • Would consumers of a popular café be seriously concerned if their café were sudden…

This does exist - popup malls and experiential shopping does exactly this through mandating landlord managed payment/epos.

“Turnover rent options” -> https://www.boxpark.co.uk/enquiries/

And...

https://rew-online.com/profit-sharing-model-could-save-mom-a...

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#964

Post by vr46 »

amingilani wrote: post #958
vr46 wrote: post #861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word "tax", when referring to Apple's fees, is a loaded and partial term. The fact that it's clear and understood and factored into the price makes it easy to complain about, but no casual customer to my knowledge has ever seriously asked what proportion of their peppermint tea and scones pays for a café's rent - overheads are overheads and margins are margins. Both companies are invoking consumers and value in t…

> no casual customer to my knowledge has ever seriously asked what proportion of their peppermint tea and scones pays for a café's rent Furthering your café analogy: • How many cafés do you think pay an annual amount + 30% of their revenue to their landlord, and may only use the landlord's payment system comprising of landlord dollaz • Would consumers of a popular café be seriously concerned if their café were sudden…

Quite a lot, sadly, just look at eateries as a concession in an institution like a museum, or as another poster said, pop-up places like Boxpark or even - slightly tangentially, event stalls at places like Kew Gardens or during Festivals.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#965

Post by athrowaway3z »

Aeolun wrote: post #561
_qulr wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iPhone is not a store. The App Store is a store. Epic wants to be on the iPhone, but not necessarily in the App Store. Ideally, Epic wants to run its own store on the iPhone. In any case, App Store is the only store in town, where the "town" is the 1.5 billion iOS users. If there's only 1 store, with no competing stores, that's an entirely different situation legally.

Yeah, I bought a $1000 device, but somehow Apple gets to decide what I run on it? I just cannot see how that is a desireable situation.

I think this is the wrong analogy to make. I bought John-Deere farm equipment. Are they allowed to break it remotely if the GPS detects I've resold it or did my own maintenance?

In other words: I bought something in the general understanding it is 'tractor'/'general purpose computer with 4G' but its capabilities are an artificially restricted.

I think it would be in everyones best interest to have such consumer protection/rights from such practices.

Perhaps they should be required to market themselves with a prominent disclaimer saying they are restricting it's normal functions.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#966

Post by thih9 »

threeseed wrote: post #329
brentis wrote: post #320

As an app developer, I'm moving to straight web apps. All the hoops, the review system,and ranking prejudice makes it an easy decision even outside of the 30% rake.

Good luck with that. Users hate mobile web apps. App Store has been around over a decade and the number of popular mobile web apps (that didn't also release an app) is basically zero.

> the number of popular mobile web apps (that didn't also release an app) is basically zero.

This could be because it’s easier for companies to monetize a mobile app and not because users would prefer a mobile app.

Also: I’ve heard that many reddit users would prefer to use the web version and they’re annoyed by being asked to use the mobile app.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#967

Post by thih9 »

mrkramer wrote: post #802
xsmasher wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every game console.

Gaming consoles are not general-purpose computers they are specialized for gaming but good point. I was looking for example of general-purpose computer being locked down by OS creator.

> Gaming consoles are not general-purpose computers they are specialized for gaming

One could say that mobile devices are not general-purpose computers, they are specialized for casual content creation and consumption.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#968

Post by bmitc »

nodamage wrote: post #277
leptoniscool wrote: post #24

Apple is a monopoly. When Microsoft was investigated and fined for anti-trust behaviors, it hasn't engaged in this level of abuse.

I am not sure why this fallacy continues to be repeated in every Apple thread. Apple currently has 46% US market share [1] and 14% global market share [2]. This is far from monopoly power. By contrast, Microsoft had 95% market share during their antitrust suit. [3] [1] https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-sh... [2] https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share... [3] https://schola…

Are monopolies strictly and solely defined by market share and not power and influence on the market in addition to abuses done through that power and influence? Defining monopolies only by market shares seems to be an outdated view. Things are different now. Even with that definition though, there is definitely a duopoly.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#969

Post by JakaJancar »

hannasanarion wrote: post #550
philplckthun wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just some thoughts; I actually found this phrasing really interesting, because clearly “you cannot have irreparable harm when you create the harm yourself” is provably incorrect. The judge won’t let this influence the decision on not extending the injunction to the Epic Games contract with Apple because of an earlier point, which is that two separate contracts exist. It’s interesting that this has been addressed with…

The judge is using "irreparable harm" as a term of art. What he's saying is you cannot have standing to sue for irreparable harm that you inflicted on yourself. You can't deliberately crash your own car and then go to court demanding the manufacturer give you a whole new one because the crash revealed a loose screw.

She

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#970

Post by mrkramer »

thih9 wrote: post #967
mrkramer wrote: post #802

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaming consoles are not general-purpose computers they are specialized for gaming but good point. I was looking for example of general-purpose computer being locked down by OS creator.

> Gaming consoles are not general-purpose computers they are specialized for gaming One could say that mobile devices are not general-purpose computers, they are specialized for casual content creation and consumption.

Google Play has over 30 categories for applications: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ...

Appstore has over 20 categories for applications: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/categories/

Categories range from Books, Medical, Business, Finance, Music, Photo & Video, Health & Fitness, Entertainment, Shopping, Productivity to Games. And the list goes on and on.

What are gaming consoles used for? Gaming. Maybe you can create apps to do something else but it wasn't meant to be general purpose.

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