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Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

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Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#441

Post by sillysaurusx »

_qulr wrote: post #387

My feeling is that this whole situation is mostly going as Tim Sweeney intended. He was itching for a fight, wanted to sue Apple. The harsher that Apple retaliates, the better Epic's court case. Apple is playing right into his hands. Did Sweeney anticipate Apple's threat to Unreal Engine? Maybe, maybe not. But the temporary restraining order did block that threat, at least for now. I don't think Epic ever intended to…

Could you provide any info showing that Apple was definitely going to block all unreal engine powered iOS apps from the App Store? Ideally definitive evidence.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#442

Post by 6nf »

jeremyjh wrote: post #436
pier25 wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think Epic ever intended to release the new Fortnite season on Apple platforms. Epic probably doesn't care much about Apple platforms. 80% of Fortnite players are on console. I doubt macOS accounts for more than 1-2%. https://newzoo.com/insights/articles/newzoos-battle-royale-s...

Sure but a fair few play on iOS. If Apple user revenue didn't matter to Epic why would they have even started this to begin with?

To serve as a warning to others

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#443

Post by madeofpalk »

threeseed wrote: post #325
madeofpalk wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic asserts that they maintain an illegal monopoly of iOS app distribution.

Epic is maintaining an illegal monopoly on Fortnite distribution. It's not available on Steam store for example.

If you feel so wronged by this, take it up with the courts and see if they agree?

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#444

Post by hn_check »

delhanty wrote: post #334
dang wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a stub comment to collect the replies so we can collapse them, to prevent offtopicness. Sorry, no-JS users.

Unfortunately, supporting a brand as team sports is a thing like supporting a political party as team sports is. HN is, hopefully, better than most places on the internet as there are lots of people willing to decide each issue on its merits, and also recalibrate their positions continually in the light of events,

"supporting a brand as team sports is a thing like supporting a political party as team sports is"

This may be true at times, but the assumption of the same is the root of a lot of the toxic behavior. You cannot be neutral or even in agreement with Apple's position without being a "fanboy", or giving into the "cult of Apple", etc.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#445

Post by underwater »

alehlopeh wrote: post #402
SXX wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true, but Epic is more of a friend to open source than Apple: they donated money to both Blender and Godot Engine. Also Epic benefit from game development being more open in general even if their own engine is not open source. If they gonna win in battle with Apple and will be allowed to have their own store then it's also make it possible to setup more of alternative stores for e.g open source software withou…

WebKit alone makes Apple more of a friend to open source than Epic.

Apple was obligated to open source WebKit. The only other project I can think of where they have been open by choice is Swift.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#446

Post by wins32767 »

One unexamined side effect of this is that Epic is no longer able to security patch Fortnite. A sufficiently bad exploit would have really interesting tradeoffs for both parties. If Apple is standing on security being the core of their offering, they'd undercut it by not letting Epic patch it. But if Apple didn't let them patch it would Epic be forced to come to terms?

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#447

Post by madeofpalk »

scarface74 wrote: post #238
madeofpalk wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic asserts that they maintain an illegal monopoly of iOS app distribution.

But surprisingly Epic didn’t go after the console makers..

Because Epic is happy with the console makers, but they're not happy with Apple.

The console makers actually actually do things for Fornite, other than offering a download. Sony sells like a Fornite + Playstation bundle, and do marketing with them.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#448

Post by cgriswald »

kbenson wrote: post #332
DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised this kind of topic inspires such discourse. I wonder what makes it different than other topics.

It touches on multiple axes of discussion that can often be found here: - The rights of the individual/company compared to the good of the public. - The right of an individual to control that which they bought. Also, whether and what you buy compared to license the use of. - Anti-competitive behavior and monopolies (as distinct concepts, whether one applies doesn't preclude a different answer for the other). - Very l…

I think these all also touch on deeper aspects of our personal stories and the emotions we feel about them. See the post about a non-white person viewing it as a battle between an oppressed party and a party upset at being viewed as an oppressed party.

Although people like to believe they think rationally, especially here; the truth is, none of us is capable of doing so all the time. We all bring things to the table. And I think each of the things you mention touches all of us pretty deeply, as it has to do with all of our individual standings in society and our freedom to live our lives.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#449

Post by notfried »

librish wrote: post #349
notfried wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t need apps on my iPhone to do 100% of all things that apps can do. I am fine with some restrictions, so long as there’s enough reliability, consistency, privacy and security. If there are alternate app stores, I am sure others would make their apps exclusive there and demand you download them through these stores: 1. Facebook will want a store that allows them to build an app that has no ad or data collection…

But why could you not just keep using the AppStore and nothing else? Out of the things you've listed the only one who would actually consider leaving the AppStore would be Epic.

I would, if I could.

Take Amazon’s Audible as an example. I use that. I want to continue using that. If Amazon launched its own store on iOS, does that mean they stop distributing it on the native App Store? If they do make it exclusive to their store, I will have to download their store.

I really don’t like the 30%, but that I see the line Apple shouldn’t cross. Loosening restrictions or opening it up for more stores effectively means the iOS platform wouldn’t be worth What it is now.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#450

Post by drusepth »

systemvoltage wrote: post #404
cnst wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually happy Apple didn't make a small concession. I can't quite have the resources to sue Apple by myself as a small user being prevented from using the device I have paid for the way I see fit. I'm very glad that EPIC is doing it on my behalf. I'm also kind of glad that Apple didn't simply cut a backroom deal with EPIC, but is instead going the full-monty on this.

I share a different view on this. I want Apple to have as much control over as they can to keep my device safe. Obviously, this is an unpopular opinion on HN - part of me wants it super hackable and open source (my hacker self), but my average joe self wants is as tied down, closed doors as possible to avoid sniffing off my personal data, usage patterns, cookies, and a whole bunch of "soft metrics" about my device to…

>I don't want Apple to open up their devices. Average Joes around the world outside of HN crowd will have everything to lose and nothing to gain.

Well, they have Fortnite to gain...

But seriously, I've lost count of the number of apps I've enjoyed on Androids that were either unavailable or stunted on iOS. Recommending even basic apps like Google Photos to family comes with a long list of caveats like, "oh yeah, it uploads your photos automatically... as long as you open the app manually to do it". It's icing on the cake that they're also taking such a hard stance against game streaming right now, which is IMO going to be a huge market going forward that a lot of people are going to miss out on (or maybe not, since most of the game streaming market is poorer people...).

I guess the argument of dumbed-down phones for the sake of security/privacy is a reasonable one, but why wouldn't people just buy, like, actual dumb phones? Having a premium phone that you don't actually own just seems like an oxymoron to me. I don't "hack" my own phone and I'm certainly no tinkerer, but being able to actually use the apps my friends use and changing the settings I want to change makes my day to day life a little better every time I do have to use my phone.

Opening up what my friends and family can do with their phones seems like it'd have a lot to gain and very little to lose.

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