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Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

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Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#341

Post by nightski »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #312
DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised this kind of topic inspires such discourse. I wonder what makes it different than other topics.

These faction wars exist for most brands that have any adversarial relationship or buy-in. Another major example is Xbox vs Playstation. Often because mom is only going to buy you one and not both, so now you're part of that faction when duking it out online. That's certainly how I spent my summer at age 15. Ideally you grow out of caring which corporation stacks more money, though. Very boring hobby.

As a dev I feel very passionate about open hardware platforms. I don't really care about epic, but the fact they are taking on this fight regardless of motives makes me very happy.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#342

Post by mhh__ »

TheNorthman wrote: post #78
mrtksn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish every damn micro transaction app gets removed one day. What’s the alternative? I’m in love with the micro transactions model because the alternative is experience destroyed by ads or high upfront fees. On the games I play I rarely buy anything, don’t see ads but their business is healthy and the games are fantastic and regularly updated with new content. I casually play Asphalt 9, SimCity BuildIt and PUBG, p…

> I rarely buy anything, don’t see ads but their business is healthy Where do you think the money comes from, then? Ultimately, your `fantastic' experience comes at the cost of innumerable singular sites of suffering from the children and addicts _who do_ buy them.

Regulating the kids by banning them completely is like a nuclear bomb in a mineshaft.

It should he easier to stop children spending money on them but equally I don't mind adults spending their money on new things. A new Fortnite skin or dance etc. does have a cost to produce (I am not in favour of PTW-style microtransactions though)

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#343

Post by chipotle_coyote »

yyyk wrote: post #245
chipotle_coyote wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tim Sweeney may be a wonderful man who loves open platforms, apple pie, and kittens, but: - Android is clearly more open than iOS, but Epic is also suing Google. So is this really about sideloading? From that suit, it sure doesn't sound like it. - When you do sideload Fortnite on your Android device, from what I understand, you can't actually sideload Fortnite directly. Instead you have sideload... the Epic Games Sto…

The reality of the legal system is that all small companies would just get worn out and forced to settle against Apple, regardless of the justice of their complaint. No company smaller than Epic could afford to file such a case. I wonder whether any company could become large enough without having some way for people to argue that "it is not the general this particular battle needs".

Sure, Epic's size is absolutely going to be helpful here. But there are other larger companies that could probably make better cases against Apple if they chose to: Amazon and Microsoft come to mind immediately, with Facebook a possibility given the events of just the last couple of days.

I'm not saying Epic is a bad poster child for this case because Epic is a sleazy company (although from all accounts they kind of are); I'm saying they're a bad poster child because their battle is running up a steeper grade.

Are they arguing that Apple's policies make it impossible for them to split money with authors at the same rate on ebooks? No. How about the policies making it impossible for them to give 100% of event ticket sales to their users and impossible for them to even tell users they'll make less money when people buy tickets on iOS? Nope. Maybe they make it impossible for them to put a client for a streaming game service, period, full-stop, even if Apple got a cut of the money? Negatory.

What does Apple's policies make it impossible for Epic to do, then? Get a higher cut of the revenue from Fortnite's game currency when it's bought on iOS. That's what got their developer account terminated. This is the stand they're taking, the flag they have planted, the hill they are ready to die on: that 70% gross profit on zero marginal cost virtual tchotchkes isn't enough.[1]

Maybe this case will be successful, but my suspicion is that if Apple changes their position, it's going to be either due to regulatory pressure or the ever-increasing weight of the rolling PR disaster they're getting themselves into.

[1] Edited to add: As I wrote, I think it's ultimately about them wanting Apple to be forced to allow the Epic Games Store to be installed on iOS through the Apple App Store, but the case they're bringing is still about Fortnite.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#344

Post by mhh__ »

fjdjsmsm wrote: post #239
jasonhansel wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ads are worse. Micro-transactions are the only viable funding model that preserves some amount of user privacy.

They could just charge a single upfront amount of money.

Sure but will that fly on today's app store?

Anecdotally, I think a single purchase can also eliminate a feedback mechanism from the players to the designers, in some scenarios.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#345

Post by didibus »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #192
gameswithgo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people familiar with Tim Sweeny’s life and ideology know that it is an actual important issues to him that platforms be open. your cynical take is often very true but there are sometimes real human ideals behind things.

Tim Sweeney may be a wonderful man who loves open platforms, apple pie, and kittens, but: - Android is clearly more open than iOS, but Epic is also suing Google. So is this really about sideloading? From that suit, it sure doesn't sound like it. - When you do sideload Fortnite on your Android device, from what I understand, you can't actually sideload Fortnite directly. Instead you have sideload... the Epic Games Sto…

Woa, I never realized that to compete as an app store on Android you could not sell your competing app store on the Android store itself.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#346

Post by 627467 »

dogma1138 wrote: post #57
MaximumMadness wrote: post #21

Apple is truly doing themselves a disservice here, if Epic wins this battle Apple will undoubtedly be painted as the bad guy, and other major companies will smell blood in the water when it comes taking down a competitor. Case in point; Tinder, Microsoft, Facebook, Spotify have all openly backed Epic and started to call attention to features that are impacted by this 30% fee. Status quo isn't going to cut it, and it…

Microsoft takes 30% on Xbox plus its much more expensive to develop and publish on that platform overall. Neither Tinder nor Spotify will transfer any savings to the end users. Spotify has been ramping their sub costs considerably my sub went up by like 150% in the UK over the past 3-4 years. Tinder employs discriminatory pricing by charging certain genders, age groups and sexual orientations more for their premium s…

Who's closer to hegemony of those you listed? Apple is definitely first in the list IMO

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#347

Post by zerocrates »

oneplane wrote: post #20

Not sure why people are surprised or consider it giant news. > The court recommended that Epic follow the App Store’s guidelines and policies while the case is in progress – the rules they followed over the past ten years until they created the current situation themselves. Epic refused. Well duh, this is a show match court fight of Epic Games not liking the rules and not getting the special treatment they want. No m…

What I don't get is: they pushed a noncompliant Fortnite update, and Apple took it down. So aren't they, in fact, not currently in violation? Since Fortnite is not on the store?

Is it not a valid response to Apple finding a violation to just say: "OK, then we just won't try to put it back up"?

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#348

Post by bioipbiop »

mrtksn wrote: post #22
system2 wrote: post #2

I wish every damn micro transaction app gets removed one day. Of course no one will do it but I simply hate everything about these apps forcing parents to pay small fees for stupid pixels because their kids begs them to do it. Sorry, nothing else new to add to the topic, just venting and have absolutely no sympathy to apps tricking kids to spend money on tiny cellphone games. My niece begged her mother to buy a roblo…

> I wish every damn micro transaction app gets removed one day. What’s the alternative? I’m in love with the micro transactions model because the alternative is experience destroyed by ads or high upfront fees. On the games I play I rarely buy anything, don’t see ads but their business is healthy and the games are fantastic and regularly updated with new content. I casually play Asphalt 9, SimCity BuildIt and PUBG, p…

I can say quite confidently that micro transactions ruined sim city build it. They slathered the game with a massive amount of grind, it really only has a minor thematic similarity to the rest of the franchise.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#349

Post by librish »

notfried wrote: post #289
librish wrote: post #160

Can someone who's on Apple's side here elaborate on why they think the outcome for consumers would be worse if they're forced to loosen some of their restrictions? It's very unlikely that app developers choose to forgo the AppStore since it will be driving the majority of app installs even in a completely open world for years to come. And if they do choose to forgo that distribution channel that should be seen as a v…

I don’t need apps on my iPhone to do 100% of all things that apps can do. I am fine with some restrictions, so long as there’s enough reliability, consistency, privacy and security. If there are alternate app stores, I am sure others would make their apps exclusive there and demand you download them through these stores: 1. Facebook will want a store that allows them to build an app that has no ad or data collection…

But why could you not just keep using the AppStore and nothing else? Out of the things you've listed the only one who would actually consider leaving the AppStore would be Epic.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#350

Post by dogma1138 »

nojs wrote: post #302
dogma1138 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft takes 30% on Xbox plus its much more expensive to develop and publish on that platform overall. Neither Tinder nor Spotify will transfer any savings to the end users. Spotify has been ramping their sub costs considerably my sub went up by like 150% in the UK over the past 3-4 years. Tinder employs discriminatory pricing by charging certain genders, age groups and sexual orientations more for their premium s…

Do you have a source with more info about Tinder pricing based on gender and sexual orientation?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...

This has been a known thing for ages since they introduced it in 2015.

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