Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#251

Post by cnst » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:38 PM UTC

Dig1t wrote: post #187

cnst wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I paid for my phone. I can do whatever I want with my phone. I don't require someone to tell me I'm not allowed to install or provide app X because someone somewhere doesn't like the idea of two consenting parties making an app transaction.

I don't understand this line of reasoning. Just because you paid someone doesn't mean they are obligated to write software to allow you to do something with the thing you bought. If the thing you bought doesn't do what you want it to do, then buy a different thing that lets you do what you want. And in this case there are literally thousands of other phones you can buy.

> doesn't mean they are obligated to write software to allow you

Apple literally doesn't have to write any software! All we're asking is for Apple to remove the software they've written that intentionally blocks any other software from working!

Android has a checkbox to install apps from any source. Hardly anyone even knows about its existence, but it means that we don't have to have a black market for phones with a given app installed (context: iPhones with Fortnite already installed were being sold for 2k+ per pop on eBay when the app was blocked).

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#252

Post by jpambrun » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:39 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #246

jpambrun wrote: post #233

IMO, Apple is acting like a bully. It's using its position of power to coerce other into giving up a substantial amount of revenue for very little effort. If they want to keep this monopoly, they should make their cost transparent and apply a reasonable markup. Otherwise they should be forced to allow competing stores. Anything else is ripe for abuse, as we can plainly see now.

And how much “effort” is it in selling virtual goods with zero marginal costs?

I am not following. Are you saying apps development is free? That the only cost is delivering the bytes?

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#253

Post by umvi » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:40 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #249

umvi wrote: post #14

Super glad I cut all ties with Apple a few years back. They make great products for my parents, but they are increasingly hostile toward developers and tech savvy users. I made a free mobile game that's in both the iOS and Play store, and after I realized the $99 fee is not just a one time fee but a recurring fee to keep the app in the store, well of course I let my developer account lapse. I'm not a charity, and it'…

Problem solved? You made a choice that was best for you using your own free will.

Yes, problem solved, though obviously I am wistful for a scenario where everyone wins.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#254

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:40 PM UTC

cnst wrote: post #196

godzillabrennus wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android is another phone platform with a larger market share. This is hardly a monopoly. Don’t buy an ios device if you want apps from vendors who don’t play by apples rules. I hate the 30% fee as a developer and a user. I was an ios jail breaker before the App Store launched. I used jailbreaking after the App Store launched to have a control panel and fast app switching. All that got baked into ios but I wish new in…

You can install any other store on Android; you can enable installation from any source on Android; you don't even need to jailbreak to get this option on Android. Not possible on iOS.

[deleted]

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#255

Post by jasonlotito » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:40 PM UTC

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #192

gameswithgo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people familiar with Tim Sweeny’s life and ideology know that it is an actual important issues to him that platforms be open. your cynical take is often very true but there are sometimes real human ideals behind things.

Tim Sweeney may be a wonderful man who loves open platforms, apple pie, and kittens, but: - Android is clearly more open than iOS, but Epic is also suing Google. So is this really about sideloading? From that suit, it sure doesn't sound like it. - When you do sideload Fortnite on your Android device, from what I understand, you can't actually sideload Fortnite directly. Instead you have sideload... the Epic Games Sto…

> Instead you have sideload... the Epic Games Store!

I remember when Valve did that with HL2 and Steam. The outrage was similar [1]. Look how it turned out for Valve.

[1] https://games.slashdot.org/story/04/10/23/0812224/half-life-...

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#256

Post by WiseWeasel » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:40 PM UTC

librish wrote: post #160

Can someone who's on Apple's side here elaborate on why they think the outcome for consumers would be worse if they're forced to loosen some of their restrictions? It's very unlikely that app developers choose to forgo the AppStore since it will be driving the majority of app installs even in a completely open world for years to come. And if they do choose to forgo that distribution channel that should be seen as a v…

I'm on weasel's side, but I can understand Apple wanting to keep iOS trusted by its users by restricting unapproved software coded to their current native app API layer. What I can't understand is the harm for end users in apps using 3rd party payment processing without giving Apple a cut. That restriction encourages a worse experience for users who now have to go to the vendor's website to complete a purchase they could be making in-app.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#257

Post by scarface74 » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:41 PM UTC

Hammershaft wrote: post #206

xphilter wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, what is the difference between the App Store and Target? Why should a third party (or court) have any control in what the retailer sells?

Target might exist alongside several other competing retailers on the same block. The friction for a customer to leave and shop at a competing retailer is low. To extend this analogy, The Apple store exists in a company town, and the friction for a customer to leave 'Appletown' shop at competing retailers in 'AndroidLand' is intentionally as high as possible [1]. This is not an argument as for what (if any) kind of c…

iPhones exist right next Android phones in every carrier store. The only place you will see that exclusively sells iPhones are Apple stores.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#258

Post by yyyk » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:41 PM UTC

bitxbit wrote: post #111

leptoniscool wrote: post #24

Apple is a monopoly. When Microsoft was investigated and fined for anti-trust behaviors, it hasn't engaged in this level of abuse.

Might be an unpopular opinion but I don’t think they are acting to the level of MSFT in the 90s. What MSFT did would be equivalent to Apple forcing everyone to use its apps and not allow any competing apps. Also recall that Jobs was pretty adamant about allowing third-party apps in the beginning. Now, do I think 30% is ridiculous in 2020? Yes. But it made sense a decade ago when having a half decent working app almos…

>What MSFT did would be equivalent to Apple forcing everyone to use its apps and not allow any competing apps.

There was never any limit on installing software. Any Windows user could have easily installed Netscape.

Now, if we want to compare actual complaints, I recall that the idea that MS used private APIs to get Word a leg up was considered outrageous. These days, Apple uses private APIs to help Apple Music, and not a peep (well, until the EU will smack them down).

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#259

Post by IncRnd » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:42 PM UTC

misnome wrote: post #223

IncRnd wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is a monopoly that controls what applications can run on iPhones. Being a monopoly is not illegal in the US. What is illegal is for a monopoly to engage in predatory practices, which Apple clearly does.

I think that the word "clearly" isn't so obvious as you seem to think.

I was referring to the specific point that is mentioned in the article, that Apple demanded 30% from Fortnite sales that had nothing to do with being listed in the store. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#260

Post by threeseed » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:42 PM UTC

fsiefken wrote: post #13

makecheck wrote: post #3

Of all the things about this, the fact that the Fortnite competitor PUBG is now being “featured” by Apple just ticks me off so much. Talk about being petty. Are there school-aged children running the App Store now (or the executive suite?). I realize Apple has the right to decide who they feature but come on . Being featured is important , it’s a big deal and it can make a serious difference to any developer’s income…

It comes across as petty, certainly rubs me the wrong way to the point I'm done with Apple. But could it just be a coincidence of some sort and that we read some agency in that?

Yes it's a coincidence since PUBG is about to release a major new update:

https://www.pubgmobile.com/en/event/erangel