Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#181

Post by dang » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:15 PM UTC

All: these Epic vs. Apple threads, and $BigCo vs. $BigCo threads in general, have unfortunately been seeing more name-calling, accusations of manipulation, flamebait/unsubstantive posts, and other things that break the HN guidelines. If you comment, can you please avoid that? Reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html would help.

The idea here is: if you have a substantive point to make, make it thoughtfully; if you don't, please don't comment until you do. Remember that every post you make has a non-negligible impact on the community. If we all treat this place like the discussion forum we'd like to have, eventually we'll have it.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#182

Post by DivisionSol » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:15 PM UTC

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #138

xphilter wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, what is the difference between the App Store and Target? Why should a third party (or court) have any control in what the retailer sells?

This would be like if there were one single store on the planet and if they don't want to sell your shit everyone just says, "That's their right, shouldn't have gotten into the business of selling things."

But there are 2 stores, and you make the choice of packaging for one or the other. You can also make your own store, if you want. (In this analogy, that is. You cannot make a store inside a store, that’d be silly.)

Basically, you can still sell on Android, or, make your own phone/mobile operating system?

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#183

Post by DetroitThrow » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:15 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #116

8note wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this provably not true? When the government decides a business is too big to fail, it'll ensure that the company keeps running. Just look at 2008

I thought I wrote 'Apple, Google, Microsoft'. The government is a different class of entity altogether and the logical exception to that rule.

I don't think "too big to fail" is a phrase used outside the context of government bailouts. The public is acutely aware of the life and death of major companies and brands, see GE or Ford nostalgia.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#184

Post by Barrin92 » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:15 PM UTC

eternalban wrote: post #147

my123 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you don't have switching costs if you want to shop at another retailer than Target, at any time.

Were you not aware of this fact when you chose iPhone over Android?

Android isn't much better in this regard. There is realistic choice of two smartphone operating system vendors, both of which exercise total and random control over their stores. If you look at the frontpage of HN today, several fediverse apps were just thrown off the Google Play store, so it's a choice between pest and cholera

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#185

Post by cnst » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:15 PM UTC

bitxbit wrote: post #111

leptoniscool wrote: post #24

Apple is a monopoly. When Microsoft was investigated and fined for anti-trust behaviors, it hasn't engaged in this level of abuse.

Might be an unpopular opinion but I don’t think they are acting to the level of MSFT in the 90s. What MSFT did would be equivalent to Apple forcing everyone to use its apps and not allow any competing apps. Also recall that Jobs was pretty adamant about allowing third-party apps in the beginning. Now, do I think 30% is ridiculous in 2020? Yes. But it made sense a decade ago when having a half decent working app almos…

> What MSFT did would be equivalent to Apple forcing everyone to use its apps and not allow any competing apps.

How many HTML/CSS/DOM/JavaScript rendering engines have been available on iOS compared to Android?! Has Gecko or Presto ever been available on iOS? What is the ONLY platform in wide use today that does not support Gecko or Blink?

Apple's iOS is by far worse than the Microsoft with Windows.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#186

Post by AnthonyMouse » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:15 PM UTC

eternalban wrote: post #147

my123 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you don't have switching costs if you want to shop at another retailer than Target, at any time.

Were you not aware of this fact when you chose iPhone over Android?

Being aware of it doesn't mean it was your preference. What if you want an iPhone for the hardware and bought it in spite of rather than because of Apple's restrictions on third party apps?

Moreover, the app you want may not have existed when you bought your first iPhone and became locked into the platform. Or it may have been on the iOS app store at that time and was subsequently removed.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#187

Post by Dig1t » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:15 PM UTC

cnst wrote: post #144

nojito wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They built the platform. They maintain the platform. They promote the platform. What's arbitrary about that?

I paid for my phone. I can do whatever I want with my phone. I don't require someone to tell me I'm not allowed to install or provide app X because someone somewhere doesn't like the idea of two consenting parties making an app transaction.

I don't understand this line of reasoning. Just because you paid someone doesn't mean they are obligated to write software to allow you to do something with the thing you bought. If the thing you bought doesn't do what you want it to do, then buy a different thing that lets you do what you want. And in this case there are literally thousands of other phones you can buy.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#188

Post by yyyk » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:16 PM UTC

jjtheblunt wrote: post #122

yyyk wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's irrelevant whether Apple are technically a monopoly or not; Apple abuses their iOS market power to force vendors to use their payment system.

Not being sarcastic, and I'm misunderstanding what you mean: how can Apple abuse their market power over something they alone created?

Two reasons:

1) They use their market power over something they created in order to gain advantage in a market they did not create (payment processors). There's no technical reason to link the two except that's it's good for Apple's bottom line.

2) Apple's app store is like running a Mall where Apple rents store, or Apple being a landlord renting apartments. The agreement to receive rents comes with implied duties like allow fair competition, and Apple overtly giving themselves undue advantage violates that.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#189

Post by parsimo2010 » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:16 PM UTC

eternalban wrote: post #147

my123 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you don't have switching costs if you want to shop at another retailer than Target, at any time.

Were you not aware of this fact when you chose iPhone over Android?

I wasn’t aware that Apple would remove an extremely popular app from the app store without giving users any option to continue using it, no.

I’m not particularly invested in Fortnite, but if Apple removes one of my favorite apps I’m going to get really cranky at any friend that suggests that I should have planned ahead for what to do if the app dev and the phone maker got in fight years after I bought my phone.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#190

Post by wilshire_nc » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:16 PM UTC

cnst wrote: post #144

nojito wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They built the platform. They maintain the platform. They promote the platform. What's arbitrary about that?

I paid for my phone. I can do whatever I want with my phone. I don't require someone to tell me I'm not allowed to install or provide app X because someone somewhere doesn't like the idea of two consenting parties making an app transaction.

Yeah but you knew that's how it worked when you bought the phone. If you didn't like the app store model you could have bought an android right?