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Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

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Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#851

Post by kbenson »

joshuamorton wrote: post #842
kbenson wrote: post #788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both situations are really a matter of freedom of speech. Forget Google, does a person with a personal website that allows comments get to control what comments they want displayed on their site or not? Does that person get to choose what work they want to accept from a potential customer? Both situations boil down to freedom of speech. Both have extra, specific laws that deal with their situations. Without a well th…

There's a subtle distinction though: one is censoring based on the speech, and the other is censoring based on the speaker. The cake example specifically is more subtle (legally), since there's an argument that the cake is custom. I think this gets very tricky legally, but on the broader point, it isn't hypocritical to say censorship based on concept is okay, but based on speaker is not.

> I think this gets very tricky legally, but on the broader point, it isn't hypocritical to say censorship based on concept is okay, but based on speaker is not.

I don't know. I think that depends on how acceptable you think it is to censor based on the Islamic religion, or the idea of homosexuality, even if you think censoring Muslims and homosexuality is not. At what point does censoring discussing about homosexuality become censoring homosexuals? I'm sure some people would say immediately, and to them, there's no difference between censorship based on show they are and what they feel or believe?

That's why I say it requires a very well thought out argument. I can be convinced that it isn't hypocritical to distinguish these (I'm exploring my thoughts on this subject, I don't have extremely held opinions on it, other than that it's complicated), but nobody has to be satisfaction yet.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#852

Post by bovermyer »

system2 wrote: post #805
bovermyer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two things: First, don't assume that just because you've never heard a word, that means no one has heard of it. There are quite a lot of us who know what the fediverse is. Second, and this is a little pedantic, fediverse is a portmanteau, not an acronym.

Well, I've been here for over 3 years and never even seen fidiverse once in the news feed. Nor did use or needed.

And that's totally fine and a legitimate experience. Just be open to the idea that that is your experience, and not also the world's.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#853

Post by chrisco255 »

heavyset_go wrote: post #693
VLM wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the editor of the internet, are they not taking on full legal liability for anything they haven't blocked yet?

No, and there are laws and tomes of case law that reinforce that no matter how much curation they do, an interactive computer service will not be held liable for user generated content.

Yeah but that can be changed with a simple act of Congress and it should be. Their support is rapidly eroding the more they flex their power.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#854

Post by epistasis »

john-shaffer wrote: post #819
epistasis wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is only "censorship" in the sense that Fox News censors me by not giving me a 5 minute slot to advocate for Medicare For All. In reality, it's not state sponsored censorship at all, and it doesn't lead down any slippery slope. These claims of censorship are extremely selectively applied, to only certain types of political speech. I wonder why that is?

I don't watch Fox News, but even I know that Fox invites Democrats on to talk about their opinions. Here is an interview where a BLM leader rants for 5 minutes: https://youtu.be/FTjBJiXalHU?t=59

And yet I have had my pleas for time go unanswered... which is "censorship" of me.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#855

Post by euske »

humanistbot wrote: post #47

The rationale they gave is that hate speech appears on these apps, because some of the microblogging sites that can be accessed via Fediverse have this kind of content. Based on this rationale, I look forward to Google Play removing Chrome, Firefox, and all other web browsers from the store as well.

And they'd replace it with a special browser that limits to the amp-enabled sites only. This is so obvious.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#856

Post by coldacid »

avivo wrote: post #506
humanistbot wrote: post #47

The rationale they gave is that hate speech appears on these apps, because some of the microblogging sites that can be accessed via Fediverse have this kind of content. Based on this rationale, I look forward to Google Play removing Chrome, Firefox, and all other web browsers from the store as well.

This sort of decision by Google does make me rather uncomfortable (the entire situation is uncomfortable... https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/12/20691957/mastodon-decentr... ). But it's worth understanding why the situation may be a bit more complicated than is described above. What seems to be happening is not an absolute ban on Fediverse apps , but a ban on specific implementations that make it easy to join specific…

In other words, the developers of these apps need to all run their own Fediverse nodes, _but not federate them to any others_ because otherwise users may be able to access content from nodes that Google doesn't like! Because each dev having to vet every instance out there is the only other option and that's practically impossible.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#857

Post by kube-system »

LegitShady wrote: post #820
kube-system wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Section 230 exists because it is operationally impractical for websites to affirmative approve of all, most, or even a significant portion or content before it is published by users. If there's anything that is an indisputable fact, it's that no high-volume platform with user content can proactively police their platform 100%. I think that's a silly rationale to say that they should be prohibited from manually polici…

I never said they should be prohibited from policing content merely that if they are capable of policing content they should be held liable for content on their platform like every other publisher. There is no reason to give these censorious companies extra legal protections no other publisher has if they are censoring society. They have been protected by a regulation that is now causing intense centralizing of power…

> There is no reason to give these censorious companies extra legal protections no other publisher has if they are censoring society.

Yes, there is a very good reason.

Traditional publishers review 100% of content before they affirmatively publish it.

User content on most websites are published by automation, and are not reviewed by humans, like this comment.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#858

Post by chrisco255 »

VLM wrote: post #615
djsumdog wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not allowing a parties political ads would be clear favoritism in a political situation. You might not like Trump, but it's quite the jump to say republican ads are "hate speech." .. in fact that's quite literally weaponizing the word "hate speech" to censor political opinions you don't like.

Which is the whole point of hate speech laws. Can't market censorship of one party, but who could ever oppose censoring hate... then redefine hate to be anything you'd like censored, and ... that's what we have now. Any time anyone complains about censorship, roll out the excuse of holocaust denial, regardless whats actually being censored.

Yes it's why freedom of speech is a thing. Ideas are meant to compete and the power to decide which ideas are acceptable is an absolute power that completely corrupts a society.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#860

Post by egypturnash »

Fellshard wrote: post #830
egypturnash wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fediverse is very split, you have some servers that are run by people who post straight up Nazi symbolism on their admin accounts, and you have some servers that have admins who will happily participate in piling on someone for appearing Insufficiently Woke. I block both kinds on my server because I just want a nice quiet place to talk with my friends, and that's a definite segment of the Fediverse too.

This much is key to observe: this isn't a partisan maneuver by Google, as much as people may want to slot it into that. It smells much more like a control maneuver: a perceived competitor.

A competitor to what? G+?
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