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Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

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Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#731

Post by [deleted] »

icebraining wrote: post #323
ziddoap wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're arguing a point that the parent poster never made. The parent poster simply said that they want to join communities free of (or, mostly free of) hate speech and that being free/mostly free of hate speech is an attractive quality for them. Not once did they advocate for denying infrastructure or any of the other things your entire comment is based on. In fact, they stated the opposite.

But is Reddit a community, or is it infrastructure to create communities (which would be the subreddits)?

[deleted]

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#732

Post by zelly »

ehsankia wrote: post #670
zelly wrote: post #522

Richard Stallman was right. The computer (smartphone) for millions of people has become a prison. The smartphone has been a tragedy for the human species. "Oh it doesn't matter they went after people I disagree with" Okay wise guy, what happens if the other side takes power? Think that's never happened historically? Then they'll come after you and I. How about we just not give this kind of power to anyone and let peo…

It has been shown time and time again that giving unrestricted uncensored access to billions will lead to the worst ideas proliferating. Look at QAnon and conspiracy theories running wild. Look anti-vaxxers and how America, one of the most advanced countries in the world, is now having Measles outbreaks after decades of having nearly 0 cases. Look at how simple things such as wearing a mask has become a controversial…

It's easy to blame all the flaws of human character on its most highly available and proximate expression which is speech. There is violence, anger, hatred, envy, all kinds of evils in the world, the world isn't perfect, man isn't perfect, and trying to control others' thoughts isn't going to change that. That would actually be regressing several hundreds years back to the Dark Ages. If your assumption is that banning free speech would improve things, I would say that is the idealistic fantasy. There's no proof that it would work or wouldn't have the same unintended consequences as before. The more these platforms push back against their users, the more they turn the public against them, the more opportunities they create to be disrupted. In a recent poll 3 out of 4 Americans said they were willing to die for free speech.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#733

Post by pfraze »

quanticle wrote: post #684
frank2 wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The loss of control of the narrative due to the internet has been a severe setback for the powerful How was the narrative controlled by the powerful before the internet became a part of everyday life? Specifically, how was the narrative controlled in the US in the decades before 1993? I'm asking for recommendations of books written by historians, journalists and other serious people. (Understanding the situation dec…

If that is true then that suggests that the efforts of the establishment to rein the big social media companies will prove largely ineffective with the result that Facebook, Google, etc, will probably join the New York Times, Harvard, etc, as part of the governing structure of the US. That's exactly what "reining in" looks like. Instead of being an alternative to, e.g. the New York Times and opposing the next Iraq wa…

Manufacturing consent online is dependent on the rules of the game. Russian-bot-syndrome is a fraud issue, in this case a state actor manipulating the 1-person-1-voice assumption of the game. If we're making a marketplace metaphor, then this market is being tilted toward actors with the resources to pay for bots, workers, or influencers. It's not like it's limited to Russia; Bloomberg was somewhat showy during the primary about paying people to tweet for him, and it's safe to assume any other well-resourced actor with an interest in manufacturing consent is doing the same thing.

The censorship debate is an indicator of game-rule collapse in social media. The platforms are reaching for top down control because they can't cook up a better way to reduce fraud and (let's call it) low-quality behavior. Ironically this method reduces the overall authenticity of the platforms and counteracts the intent of the censorship, and thus you get game-rule collapse.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#734

Post by amadeuspagel »

newhotelowner wrote: post #188
john_moscow wrote: post #64

For anyone else concerned with the recent Big Tech censorship, people are actively building alternative social medial platforms and they are taking off. The RedditAlternatives subreddit [0] provides a fairly good overview of them. Some are rather extreme, others are more reasonable, but there are alternatives, and it's up to us, the reasonable people, to choose where we want to spend our time and money. [0] https://w…

> Big Tech censorship Pretty much all the subs like the the_donald, republicans, conservative, asktrumpsupporters that are against the big tech censorship will censor (ban) you for just showing their hypocrisy. I clicked on few links or r/RedditAlternatives, and they look like Facebook pages of rural Ohio.

> Pretty much all the subs like the the_donald, republicans, conservative, asktrumpsupporters that are against the big tech censorship will censor (ban) you for just showing their hypocrisy.

This is like saying:

> Pretty much all the discussion groups that are against government censorship will censor you (throw you out) just for showing their hypocrisy.

It's not hypocritical to moderate one forum, on a platform where everyone can create his own forum, while also demanding that the platform itself doesn't censor discussions, anymore then it's hypocritical to moderate a discussion group, while also demanding that the government doesn't censor your discussions.

Moderation happens at the lowest level possible. Any content removal at a higher level is censorship.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#735

Post by ethanwillis »

ptd wrote: post #607
verylittlemeat wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some non cancerous communities that aren't welcome on reddit. Lots of legal gray area ones that revolve around data hoarding / archiving are constantly threatened and sometimes taken down for piracy. The subreddits try to police the most blatant piracy but due to the nature of why people archive/hoard data it can be difficult.

Can you give an example of such a community?

I can give you another one. Reddit banned /r/Holodomor https://www.reddit.com/r/reclassified/comments/bedmbv/rholod...

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#736

Post by [deleted] »

failuser wrote: post #654
john_moscow wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I can tell you what's bugging me personally about this. There's a growing divide in our society between the "equal opportunity" and "equal outcome" camps. And while the "equal opportunity" people mostly have the "just let me grill" attitude, "equal outcomers" are pushing increasingly harder, while doing their best to silence any opposing voices. It's now getting to a point where raising one's kids to be proud o…

Soviet Union was never about equal outcome. It was proclaimed, but worked around in every way possible. Jews were limited in access to education, ex-nobility was limited in rights, the party members were given all kinds of preferential treatment and nomenklatura living in relative luxury while the peasants were starving. Hey, even the city dwellers were privileged compared to peasants who were tied to the land and re…

[deleted]

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#737

Post by FeepingCreature »

tshaddox wrote: post #346
djsumdog wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everyone agrees that hate speech is bad but does everyone agree on what hate speech is? That's the danger. You can just claim any opinion you don't like is hate speech. You can say endorsing a particular candidate is hate speech and those people can justifiably be censored; their views invalid (and in some places; justifiably killed). It was once considered offensive, in many places a crime, to say homosexuality is…

Does everyone agree on what murder is? Of course not. Does that mean murder should be legal?

Yes of course. That is, there are some things that some people call murder that should be legal.

Such as steak.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#738

Post by young_unixer »

grahoho wrote: post #77
daniel-s wrote: post #18

A reminder that F-Droid [1] is a free software app store that can be used to download free/open source software, including Mastodon clients. [1] https://f-droid.org/

A reminder that F-Droid banned Gab from their store. https://reclaimthenet.org/f-droid-bans-gab-app/

I didn't know about this. I'll stop recommending F-droid.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#739

Post by HelloMcFly »

icebraining wrote: post #323
ziddoap wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're arguing a point that the parent poster never made. The parent poster simply said that they want to join communities free of (or, mostly free of) hate speech and that being free/mostly free of hate speech is an attractive quality for them. Not once did they advocate for denying infrastructure or any of the other things your entire comment is based on. In fact, they stated the opposite.

But is Reddit a community, or is it infrastructure to create communities (which would be the subreddits)?

Engage in whatever wordplay you want: reddit is a website built on community content and interaction. That there are user-created communities within the larger community does not turn it into some sort of "infrastructure" of internet expression. The infrastructure to build one's own site, and communities that go with it, are and should continue to be made available to all regardless of viewpoint. Given Voat's existence and the fact that people do use it, I do not see a problem.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#740

Post by FeepingCreature »

FactolSarin wrote: post #516
mc32 wrote: post #95

It always starts like that. People agree to very sensible things. Like hate speech is bad and it’s not censorship if it’s not mandated by the government. Eventually the definition of hate or whatever it is that’s offensive is very removed from the original meaning, and now we all bear the brunt of the sensible people who with best intentions wanted to make things better.

> It always starts like that. That's the "slippery slope" fallacy. There's a knee-jerk reaction in America that any censorship is bad and will somehow always lead to more censorship. But there area places where censorship has been implemented in small ways and it hasn't led to some sort of free speech apocalypse. In Germany or Israel, for instance, it's illegal to deny the holocaust. That's a pretty sensible limit co…

I believe you will find that's the fallacy fallacy.
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