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Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

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Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#511

Post by mikecoles »

krapp wrote: post #194
quotemstr wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The danger here is viewpoint based discrimination . It should be illegal for a big platform to shut down certain points of view when these points of view are legal and expressed in a normal manner. You can shut down spam without harming the principle of free expression because you can express any idea in a way that isn't spam. The law gives you a legitimate and stable line that you can draw between allowed and disall…

> It should be illegal for a big platform to shut down certain points of view when these points of view are legal and expressed in a normal manner. Platforms aren't public venues, they're private businesses offering access to a service under terms that serve their interests and business needs first and foremost... terms that everyone agreed to before being able to use the platform. >The law gives you a legitimate and…

It's a shame they don't bake cakes.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#512

Post by mindslight »

croes wrote: post #206
thomascgalvin wrote: post #169

> Like hate speech is bad and it’s not censorship if it’s not mandated by the government. To be fully accurate, this is absolutely censorship , but it's not a violation of anyone's First Amendment rights. People often conflate the two. We can argue about whether or not Google should ban certain opinions on their platform, or where the line should be drawn, but it is arguable that hey have the legal right to do so. An…

That's a clever trick. Make the medium you want to censor a private property than it's legal.

It's not a deliberate trick on anyone's part, but rather complexity induced contradiction. Similar destruction has happened to other rights - jury trial via plea bargains, equal representation via forced arbitration clauses, "papers please" via driving and flying, unreasonable search and seizure via web services, double jeopardy via overlapping jurisdictions, and of course federated government via pervasive commerce.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#514

Post by noxer »

mike00632 wrote: post #393
noxer wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You never head of Freenet? There is no such thing as censorship there.

I'm sure they would censor messages used as a denial of service attack.

Its not possible to do that. Nodes cant know whats in a chunk of data that comes by and from whom it comes. But freenet is to host website like sites called freesites. You cant really spam anyone with sites you can create as many as you want but if no one visits them they will eventually just "fall out" of the de central storage.

Technically you could probably bring it down if you simulate a massive amount of users who only access spam sites but that would probably become rather expensive because you would attack your own nodes and your own nodes would try to help the network. It would also need to persist forever else everything would simply go back to normal shortly after the attack is stooped.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#515

Post by chucksmash »

nitrogen wrote: post #443
Loughla wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but I don’t think it’s the right precedent to set. I've thought about this statement for about a half hour now. What does it mean? That punishing individuals for ignoring public health mandates is a precedent we don't want? Or is it just the 'utility' being used that is problematic for you? I don't get it.

Taking away a fundamental requirement for life is cruel and unusual, and the punishment does not fit the crime.

I don't know how I feel about cutting off the water service, but "cruel and unusual" seems like a reach.

It would be cruel and unusual to deprive a prisoner of water because they have no other means of attaining it when you withhold it. Turning off city water service to a property is different. The property owner has other options they can take to get the water they need to stay alive.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#516

Post by FactolSarin »

mc32 wrote: post #95

It always starts like that. People agree to very sensible things. Like hate speech is bad and it’s not censorship if it’s not mandated by the government. Eventually the definition of hate or whatever it is that’s offensive is very removed from the original meaning, and now we all bear the brunt of the sensible people who with best intentions wanted to make things better.

> It always starts like that.

That's the "slippery slope" fallacy. There's a knee-jerk reaction in America that any censorship is bad and will somehow always lead to more censorship. But there area places where censorship has been implemented in small ways and it hasn't led to some sort of free speech apocalypse. In Germany or Israel, for instance, it's illegal to deny the holocaust. That's a pretty sensible limit considering their history. All these years later, they're still free an functioning democracies.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#517

Post by obenn »

Sargos wrote: post #320
obenn wrote: post #82

This does highlight how important the relative freedom of Android is. This is unfortunate but it does not stop the ability for people to load the APKs or get them off of F-Droid. That being said, imagine if this happened on the Apple App Store...

It didn't happen on the App Store because Apple wouldn't have allowed it on in the first place

There are currently several mastodon clients available on the App Store, like Tootle and Amaroq. Hopeful that they stay up, we'll see.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#518

Post by retpirato »

avivo wrote: post #506
humanistbot wrote: post #47

The rationale they gave is that hate speech appears on these apps, because some of the microblogging sites that can be accessed via Fediverse have this kind of content. Based on this rationale, I look forward to Google Play removing Chrome, Firefox, and all other web browsers from the store as well.

This sort of decision by Google does make me rather uncomfortable (the entire situation is uncomfortable... https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/12/20691957/mastodon-decentr... ). But it's worth understanding why the situation may be a bit more complicated than is described above. What seems to be happening is not an absolute ban on Fediverse apps , but a ban on specific implementations that make it easy to join specific…

So Google somehow knows which apps block certain instances, which generally get reputation among other instances & are quickly blocked? That's not believable.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#519

Post by gowld »

avivo wrote: post #506
humanistbot wrote: post #47

The rationale they gave is that hate speech appears on these apps, because some of the microblogging sites that can be accessed via Fediverse have this kind of content. Based on this rationale, I look forward to Google Play removing Chrome, Firefox, and all other web browsers from the store as well.

This sort of decision by Google does make me rather uncomfortable (the entire situation is uncomfortable... https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/12/20691957/mastodon-decentr... ). But it's worth understanding why the situation may be a bit more complicated than is described above. What seems to be happening is not an absolute ban on Fediverse apps , but a ban on specific implementations that make it easy to join specific…

Does Safe Browsing block sites that the user wants to visit?

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#520

Post by gowld »

hinkley wrote: post #388
Retric wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Censorship is allowed under the first amendment on obscenity or national security grounds. Private organizations just have more freedom in this area. EX: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_v._Pacifica_Foundation

I wonder when someone is going to figure out that obscenity laws violate separation of church and state and are thus unconstitutional.

Never, because morality is not the same as religion. Morality is well established as a basis for law.
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