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Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

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Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#311

Post by chromatin »

valvar wrote: post #177
mc32 wrote: post #95

It always starts like that. People agree to very sensible things. Like hate speech is bad and it’s not censorship if it’s not mandated by the government. Eventually the definition of hate or whatever it is that’s offensive is very removed from the original meaning, and now we all bear the brunt of the sensible people who with best intentions wanted to make things better.

I really don't get that logic. Of course, everyone agrees that hate speech is bad (and so are a lot of things, but I digress). But how is it not censorship when one of the world's most powerful companies does it? Do they get a free pass because they are governed by shareholders and make a lot of money? I can see how it's not censorship if Bob does not want people to post things he disagrees with on his cat picture fo…

> Of course, everyone agrees that hate speech is bad

That sounds like an unjustified premise.

_Note to the casual downvoter not critically examining my argument: I am not saying that I personally do not think hate speech is bad._

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#312

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #143
Lambdanaut wrote: post #87

Not only are these apps web browsers of a subset of sites, other web browsers on the Play Store already allow access to these sites in exactly the same manner as the app, using the SAME PROTOCOL. In respect to this move by Google, there are no differences between web browsers and Mastodon browsers. The only difference is that if Google applies their ban equally and fairly, they lose tremendous amounts of money by ban…

Do Mastodon apps report your browsing preferences to google? If you browse with chrome, google knows what you browse.

There are plenty of web browsers on the Play Store that are not Chrome.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#313

Post by ziddoap »

kanox wrote: post #249
thomascgalvin wrote: post #169

> Like hate speech is bad and it’s not censorship if it’s not mandated by the government. To be fully accurate, this is absolutely censorship , but it's not a violation of anyone's First Amendment rights. People often conflate the two. We can argue about whether or not Google should ban certain opinions on their platform, or where the line should be drawn, but it is arguable that hey have the legal right to do so. An…

This definition of censorship is bad and must be changed. Large general-purpose platforms should be forced do distribute all content which is not otherwise illegal, and only perform removal based through the standard legal system.

I'm not on Googles side here, but... As nice as your sentiment is, there are plenty of real problems which have to be addressed.

Who defines, and what are the definitions of "Large" and "General Purpose" in this context?

Am I allowed to moderate content as fits with my ToS at X number of users, but at X+1 users I become forced to publish all content which is "not otherwise illegal"?

In regards to what is "not otherwise illegal", which laws from which country apply?

How does one combat things such as excessive spam? If I am forced to allow any content which is "otherwise not illegal", and my service becomes literally unusable because of someone posting 10,000 cat pictures per second (cats aren't illegal, I'm forced to distribute the cats), what is my recourse? Am I still allowed to rate limit? Because that, boiled down, is censoring a users ability to post "otherwise not illegal" content.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#314

Post by IntelMiner »

Aerroon wrote: post #286
IntelMiner wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet. There's a certain "side" that wants to have that both ways Private companies can't censor "bad opinions" But private companies can also arbitrarily refuse service for say, making a "gay wedding cake" How is this disconnect rationalized?

Size (importance) of the company. Can your electricity company disconnect you because they don't like what you're saying online using that electricity?

An electricity company is a utility however. They're a natural monopoly in a way that a "website" can't be

If [large social media platform] doesn't want that kind of content, it's not unreasonable to simply make one to soak up that "ignored" market segment. Reddit can't shut you down for hosting your own internet forum for instance

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#315

Post by orblivion »

grahoho wrote: post #77
daniel-s wrote: post #18

A reminder that F-Droid [1] is a free software app store that can be used to download free/open source software, including Mastodon clients. [1] https://f-droid.org/

A reminder that F-Droid banned Gab from their store. https://reclaimthenet.org/f-droid-bans-gab-app/

They banned the Gab _application_. They didn't ban all microblogging applications that can access Gab. Though, Tusky in particular does. Not all do.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#317

Post by LudwigNagasena »

riffraff wrote: post #299
LudwigNagasena wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People agree to very sensible things. Like hate speech is bad and it’s not censorship if it’s not mandated by the government. This doesn’t seem very sensible to me, I would even say it seems to be the opposite of sensible, probably because I am not American.

hate speech is a crime in many european countries too[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_by_country

That’s a non sequitur. What do you mean “too?” What does this have to do with the claim that “it’s not censorship if it’s not mandated by the government”?

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#318

Post by thu2111 »

neiman wrote: post #244

I'm surprised they take it down. Why would they do that? Is the fediverse a threat to Google? It's a super niche thing for the a small minority of people who are not Google target users anyway.

Because they don't consider people who disagree with their political views legitimate, and wish to wipe them out via any means possible. The fact that the fediverse is small is neither here nor there: indeed, starting by picking off smaller players is a good way to establish a precedent and desensitise employees, so the next round of shutting down bigger players doesn't seem so bad. Boiling the frog, right in front of us.

As for why they do it, this essay may prove enlightening:

https://quillette.com/2020/08/16/the-challenge-of-marxism/

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#319

Post by ascorbic »

oehpr wrote: post #272
gilrain wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A reminder that Gab is not a gray area edgecase, but a purpose-built platform for conspiracies and hate speech.

I'm not deeply versed in Gab's history... But lets hypothetically say that Gab was not created for that purpose, but for precisely the purpose it claims it was created for: To be an open platform for free speech, no censorship. Wouldn't it have ended up in the exact same state it is now? Any service that guarantees no censorship is going to have the majority of its userbase be the runoff from other major websites. Wh…

If they didn't intend it, they were being incredibly naive. If your defining characteristic is that you don't censor things that are banned on Reddit, then your site is only attractive to people who want to do things banned on Reddit.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#320

Post by Sargos »

obenn wrote: post #82

This does highlight how important the relative freedom of Android is. This is unfortunate but it does not stop the ability for people to load the APKs or get them off of F-Droid. That being said, imagine if this happened on the Apple App Store...

It didn't happen on the App Store because Apple wouldn't have allowed it on in the first place
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