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Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

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Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#141

Post by baybal2 »

humanistbot wrote: post #21

The rationale they gave is that hate speech appears on these apps, because some of the microblogging sites that can be accessed via Fediverse have this kind of content. Based on this rationale, I look forward to Google Play removing Chrome, Firefox, and all other web browsers from the store as well.

This is not the case. Don't assume goodwill from Google.

> The rationale they gave is that hate speech appears on these apps,

So does in countless app on the store, and not in the third party content, but app themselves pretty much, and Google don't touch it.

A much more rational assumption is that Google sees the Fediverse as something that can come to steal their cattle (eyeballs,) and they have a plan to subplant it.

You will very soon see them turning even more picky, and eventually remove even censored fediverse apps.

They are repeating the trick they did with uBlock. First, they say do a purge, with an option for the most resistant to "play along," and a few month later, they pull the rug again. This way, they evade an immediate backlash.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#142

Post by quotemstr »

krapp wrote: post #115
quotemstr wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? Any platform free of censorship is going to have some speech you dislike.

There are few if any platforms on the open web free of censorship, they just draw their line in the sand in a different arbitrary place than others. Banning illegal content, spam, harassment, etc (which even the most hardcore "censorship free" platforms do) are also forms of censorship.

The danger here is viewpoint based discrimination. It should be illegal for a big platform to shut down certain points of view when these points of view are legal and expressed in a normal manner. You can shut down spam without harming the principle of free expression because you can express any idea in a way that isn't spam.

The law gives you a legitimate and stable line that you can draw between allowed and disallowed speech. It's fine for a platform to censor what's illegal, because in a sense, we all agree on the law and have a say in its content. But we have no say in big tech content policy, and that's what makes it illegitimate.

My basic point is that it's infuriating and wrong for big tech to impose its values on the public. A public space that's privately owned is still a public space. A free society is one where you don't get barred from public spaces because of your opinions.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#143

Post by GoblinSlayer »

Lambdanaut wrote: post #87

Not only are these apps web browsers of a subset of sites, other web browsers on the Play Store already allow access to these sites in exactly the same manner as the app, using the SAME PROTOCOL. In respect to this move by Google, there are no differences between web browsers and Mastodon browsers. The only difference is that if Google applies their ban equally and fairly, they lose tremendous amounts of money by ban…

Do Mastodon apps report your browsing preferences to google? If you browse with chrome, google knows what you browse.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#144

Post by rightbyte »

Barrin92 wrote: post #122
mc32 wrote: post #95

It always starts like that. People agree to very sensible things. Like hate speech is bad and it’s not censorship if it’s not mandated by the government. Eventually the definition of hate or whatever it is that’s offensive is very removed from the original meaning, and now we all bear the brunt of the sensible people who with best intentions wanted to make things better.

>It always starts like that. many places have cultures and also law that for decades has worked perfectly fine reigning in the very worst forms of hate speeech (say holocaust denial in my country) while not descending into a sort of activism that starts to get silly. There's no automatic mechanism that turns sensible rules into insensible ones, and it's also need not be the case with sensible hate speech rules. With…

Historic revisionism as an subgroup of hate speech is a prime example of slippery slope and moving of definition. I would add "fake news" to hate speech.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#145

Post by rvz »

humanistbot wrote: post #47

The rationale they gave is that hate speech appears on these apps, because some of the microblogging sites that can be accessed via Fediverse have this kind of content. Based on this rationale, I look forward to Google Play removing Chrome, Firefox, and all other web browsers from the store as well.

Exactly. This is Google drawing the line on where this "hate speech" is from and they believe that such "content" can be accessed via the Fediverse.

To see how ridiculous this sounds, Google might as well completely take down the entire social media and internet browsing category on the Play Store since I keep seeing the same content from both extremes on all these platforms.

Just wait until you tell them to take down their own browser since you can find this "content" with a simple search. They will soon realise that "drawing the line on hate speech" is more tougher than solving leetcode CS questions.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#146

Post by kspacewalk2 »

newacct583 wrote: post #108
matsemann wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haven't podcasts apps recently been removed as well? Something about it being possible to listen to stuff about covid on them. Edit, found it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23219427 And well, they should probably remove the apps of Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, etc as it's plenty of hate speech there too.

They didn't remove Podcast Addict, it's right here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bambuna.po... That was a mistake, presumably. It's likely this is too. The deep desire on the part of posters here to assume malice and scream CENSORSHIP is really off-putting. I actually don't know anything about fediverse, but if it's like other pseudoanonymous obscure communications media it's probably filled with…

The only reason Podcast Addict has been restored (multiple times) is that it's high-profile, and the owner raised enough stink to cause widespread (enough) outrage about this. Otherwise, whether through malice or incompetence, it would be gone forever.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#147

Post by cecja »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #131
vbezhenar wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be Apple forcing them to do so. For example you can't publish app with porn content. Even if your app is some kind of forum, you're obliged at least to filter out explicit content in the app. Browser seems to be an exception.

Does reddit filter out porn in the reddit iOS app? And what would Apple have to do with Google’s Play Store?

Yes with the standard settings in place you have to navigate directly to nsfw subreddits and even then there is a age restriction in place. There are no auto fill suggestions nor search results and there is no nsfw content on the /r/all page inside the app.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#148

Post by IncRnd »

cft wrote: post #118
IncRnd wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome already blocks websites.

For hate speech? I thought only for malware so far.

For the most part, yes I believe the blocking is for malware sites. The current list I am aware: malware sites, deceptive sites, suspicious sites, sites with possible harmful programs, sites that load scripts from unauthenticated sources, sites that chrome believes were typed incorrectly.

I didn't intend to imply that chrome currently, intentionally blocks sites on other criteria. However, the framework is already there.

History shows that the ego of people always takes over if left unchecked. When it is possible to restrict something, that will eventually get restricted. This is especially true when discussing large companies, such as Google.

I was agreeing with you and not correcting you :-)

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#149

Post by noxer »

krapp wrote: post #115
quotemstr wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? Any platform free of censorship is going to have some speech you dislike.

There are few if any platforms on the open web free of censorship, they just draw their line in the sand in a different arbitrary place than others. Banning illegal content, spam, harassment, etc (which even the most hardcore "censorship free" platforms do) are also forms of censorship.

You never head of Freenet? There is no such thing as censorship there.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#150

Post by quotemstr »

HelloMcFly wrote: post #113
quotemstr wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? Any platform free of censorship is going to have some speech you dislike.

Well, because I don't want to join communities where hate speech is common, much less the prevailing type of content. I don't think that speech should be outlawed, but that doesn't mean I want to be where it is. So if reddit helps remove hate speech and it funnels to these alternatives, that only makes reddit more attractive to me. Plainly: I want reddit to censor hate speech on their site, but I don't want hosting c…

Ok. But when you start denying basic infrastructure to those with viewpoints you dislike --- domain names, DDOS protection, app store distribution --- you're no longer trying to just maintain some particular community's culture, but instead eradicate certain speech from public life.

It should be illegal to deny fundamental infrastructure to someone on the basis of his philosophy or point of view. That's what a free society means.

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