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China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

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Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#301

Post by bavent »

blindspot557 wrote: post #268
bavent wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what does this have to do with the article? Every time there is a post about the Chinese state committing some evil act, there is a post like this - whataboutism at it’s finest. Usually written by a new account, usually written in a way that makes it seem like English isn’t the primary language of the poster.

Of course it does. They are all problems human beings facing when we trying to put different cultures together and live in harmony and create prosperity. If you can't even figure out what's happening near you, how can you assume you will even have a total understanding about something happening on the other side of the earth??

Because it's off-topic? It deflects from the discussion of how a totalitarian state is essentially committing genocide and tries to compare that to social problems in the U.S., which are not nearly on that scale.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#302

Post by newyankee »

Darmody wrote: post #10
TheUndead96 wrote: post #2

To those that believe that they would not have turned a blind eye during WWII to the systematic extermination of Jews, the current generation has been given a similar challenge. Where is your cancel-culture now? How will our children think of us?

Some of us don't have much power. I denounced it online several times, that's all I can do. People like Lebron James, who thinks of himself like a freedom fighter, when he criticized China he ended up saying he was misinformed and he wasn't educated about the issue. He loves the money coming from China more than anything else. I want him to be reminded by this. He put his millions before human lives, just like some n…

Even Islamic countries that should traditionally be sympathetic to the cause of Uighurs turn a blind eye to it e.g. even Pakistan does not mention it because of their close relationship to China. If Nations are scared you can imagine how difficult it will be for individuals, even if you may think they have a lot of power.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#304

Post by logicchains »

take_a_breath wrote: post #286
logicchains wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If he'd shown the tiniest bit of competent leadership through the pandemic, we could have locked down for 2 months, suffered the high unemployment, and then largely gotten back to normalcy(+masks) by now. Then why haven't the Blue states that have been locked down for months gotten back to normalcy? Like California and New York? Why hasn't Melbourne gotten back to normalcy? Almost nowhere that prevented a first wave…

Oddly, you failed to mention all of Europe. they have a lower unemployment rate than the US [1]. [1] https://www.aa.com.tr/en/economy/unemployment-rate-in-eu-ris...

Looks like from your link it's 7.1%. For the no lockdown states on https://www.aier.org/article/unemployment-far-worse-in-lockd..., it's around 6%.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#305

Post by computerfriend »

take_a_breath wrote: post #291
eanzenberg wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a weird take. Every administration before our current one appeased China despite their obvious human rights issues. This is the first admin to challenge the issue.

The weird take is going after LeBron James like it is his job to conduct international diplomacy, while giving Trump a break on his personal Chinese business interests.

It's everyone's job to not be a hypocrite.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#306

Post by grugagag »

jkhdigital wrote: post #237
qiqing wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me contrast that with something: opening a dialogue outside of an echo chamber. For example, a woman of Han descent who had her purse snatched by a Uighur kid talked about feeling nervous and clutching her bag when she passed someone on the street. Instead of lecturing her about systemic problems as a first resort, I started by finding common ground: her experiences as a Chinese woman studying abroad in Japan, an…

Yeah... I hear you and I think there’s a valid point here, but let’s not draw false equivalencies. Mass forced detention of entire ethnic groups is not comparable to systemic racism. One can argue that the US is systemically racist but we did elect a black president.

Trump is the wrath we get for electing a black president

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#307

Post by Darmody »

megous wrote: post #240
Darmody wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nazi Germany had millions of citizens too, just like you and me. People who wanted to live a happy and fulfilling life. We're not talking about bombing them. We're talking about economic boycott and economic sanctions. What else do you have in mind? How do we act against countries that commit crimes against humanity? Do we just stand and watch because they have millions of good citizens?

Economic sanctions should be directed at leaders. I don't see much use in random people boycotting random things from China, having much effect on the leaders. I guess it may have effect if you tell your favorite seller on Aliexpress, that sorry, I will not be buying anymore stuff from you, because XYZ. But just stopping, means nothing. Sends no discernible signal to the other side, and just increases economic suffer…

Sanctions against leaders don't work if they don't have their assets in the west. Chinese officials wouldn't give a fuck about it.

And besides that, we're in an economic against them. Actually, they are in an economic war against us. We can't do business in their country freely but they can make their own companies here or buy the ones we already have with the money they are making from manufacturing our stuff. Nope.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#308

Post by bavent »

blindspot557 wrote: post #276
bavent wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what does this have to do with the article? Every time there is a post about the Chinese state committing some evil act, there is a post like this - whataboutism at it’s finest. Usually written by a new account, usually written in a way that makes it seem like English isn’t the primary language of the poster.

why does a new account and non english speaking background matter? You see what's underlying your comment? you try to disqualify people's opinions/comments based on their background. Is that someone from a free speech country supposed to do? Shouldn't we open our arms to different opinions? Isn't that the "diversity" we've been talking about for decades?

Some opinions are wrong, we don't need to open our arms to all of them. Ever heard of the paradox of tolerance?

A new account means you could be hiding a post history that is pro-China, or comments you've made on another account alluding to living in China. You could be coming in here entirely to deflect arguments away from the real thread of discussion and attempting to turn it into an anti-U.S. one. It means I at least take what you say with much more skepticism because there is no record of your thoughts on other subjects to get a more complete picture of who you are.

Being ESL means you could potentially be Chinese, living in China, and very much in support of pro-Han activities such as annexing Tibet and burning down historic monasteries, or committing genocide against ethnic minorities. Which means your opinion is one of the ones that we don't need to open our arms to.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#309

Post by EForEndeavour »

maxwell wrote: post #229
tobyhinloopen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you rallying? I perfectly understand why people aren’t rallying: it’s happening on the other side of the planet. What are we supposed to do?

[flagged]

On the one hand, we need an anti-CCP boycott of similar scale as the anti-Nazi boycotts of 1933 onward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1933_anti-Nazi_boycott

On the other hand, those boycotts pushed German Nazis to counter-boycott Jewish businesses and double down on anti-Jewish propaganda, and as far as I can read, didn't meaningfully hamper the escalation of Nazism toward war.

On the third hand, to do nothing is to side with the oppressor.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#310

Post by canada2020 »

yorwba wrote: post #280
canada2020 wrote: post #261

Yes, this is bad. I think we can all agree on that. But does anyone have sources on _how_ China got into this situation? They wouldn't be detaining Uighurs at this scale for no reason. So what's the history behind this? I left a separate comment here of someone else who commented on the article with a potential background reason (terrorism?). Although I'm not sure if can rely on just that one comment, and would love…

Much has been written in the Chinese academic literature about the need for new policing strategies in Xinjiang. Here's a reading list with English summaries: https://xinjiang.sppga.ubc.ca/policy-documents/chinese-acade... Of course the original articles are all in Chinese.

Thanks! This is great. It appears that China's argument for Xinjiang are:

1. Anti-terrorism / Religious Extremist Activities 2. Poverty alleviation

We have certainly seen similar situations play out in the past (e.g. US & Middle East), with different approaches. China's approach is to eliminate "ethnic separatism" through these "re-education camps". Not ideal, for sure. But what would be a better solution?

If we had terrorism in the US -- in fact, an entire state of people subscribed to that mindset -- what's the best way to deal with that?

(This is, ofc, assuming China's terrorism claims are real)

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