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When Asbestos Was a Gift Fit for a King

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Re: When Asbestos Was a Gift Fit for a King

#91

Post by rbg246 »

shadowprofile77 wrote: post #62
reyoz wrote: post #49

For a short backstory on Wittenoom, an former asbestos mining town in remote Western Australia see this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3LDoI7H1Gc I once worked with an environmental engineer who had a grandfather that worked at Wittenoom. He passed away due to mesothelioma, but her father who grew up there has not been affected, which is quite amazing given the circumstances. I have seen footage from Wittenoo…

From what I know and was also told by several doctors when a family member was dying of mesothelioma in his early 70's (despite never having worked more than casually a few times around asbestos in his much younger years), the illness is strongly suspected of being tied to a genetic predisposition that only affects a certain small percentage of people. If one has this genetic disposition, it's apparently possible tha…

One thing I always find interesting about Wittenoom Mine is that it's construction and then sale to CSR seems to be the seed capital for Lang Hancock and his daughter Gina Rinehart to build a giant empire in iron ore mining.

Gina Rinehart is the wealthiest person in Australia.

Re: When Asbestos Was a Gift Fit for a King

#92

Post by kristofferR »

userbinator wrote: post #50

Franklin's asbestos purse can be seen here: https://www.sciencephoto.com/media/530102/view/benjamin-fran... You may also enjoy this 1940 book from an asbestos manufacturer: https://archive.org/details/LegendsOfAsbestosBeingAnIllustra...

Haha wow, that didn't look as impressive as I imagined it.

Were it hard/impossible to finely weave it back in those days?

Re: When Asbestos Was a Gift Fit for a King

#93

Post by arethuza »

sandworm101 wrote: post #4
liability wrote: post #2

I've heard this Charlemagne legend before but I'd love to see somebody put it to the test. I'm thinking the tablecloth would come out of the fire soiled with ash and bits of charcoal. I suppose it might still impress his guests but I don't think this party trick would work quite as well as the legend suggests. Also, 'Salamander Cotton' is a delightful name for asbestos.

Less a tablecloth, more a placemat. And it is doubtful it was thrown onto the fire, where it would probably put the fire mostly out, rather than thrown into the fireplace to hang on something over the fire. There are also translation issues from royal to plain speak. Royals like this rarely did physical things. When the king is observed to "throw" something, it is more likely that he had it thrown by a servant who th…

Ancient royal lines often start with someone who is, as Neal Stephenson would put it, a stupendous badass.

e.g. The current UK Royal Family have these chaps as ancestors:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_the_Bruce

Re: When Asbestos Was a Gift Fit for a King

#94

Post by somesortofsystm »

reyoz wrote: post #49

For a short backstory on Wittenoom, an former asbestos mining town in remote Western Australia see this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3LDoI7H1Gc I once worked with an environmental engineer who had a grandfather that worked at Wittenoom. He passed away due to mesothelioma, but her father who grew up there has not been affected, which is quite amazing given the circumstances. I have seen footage from Wittenoo…

Its a big pity that access to the region is tainted by the mining operations that made the area toxic, because Wittenoom and the gorges in the region are an absolutely astonishing part of the world - so much history of the original land owners in the area.

I visited it on school trips as a kid, and I'll never forget the sight of so many indigenous relics scrolling past the bus window. To think that it is all off-limits now, due to asbestos, is a real tragedy. Australia has so many of these kinds of deeply rich, deeply interesting sights that are tucked away behind a mining company's fence ..

So, its not like asbestos - in Australia - is only killing people. Its also masking a very significant degree of cultural heritage from the current generation that could benefit from understanding it more ..

Re: When Asbestos Was a Gift Fit for a King

#95

Post by throwaway0a5e »

rsynnott wrote: post #71
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If asbestos was discovered today we'd likely use the hell out of it because we'd know it causes cancer ahead of time and we'd take precautions (like not building it into things likely to release dust) the same way we do with all sorts of crazy molecules that get used in modern chemicals. It would be in your Ove Glove, not in your floor tiles. Tons of people wouldn't get cancer (because we wouldn't release the dust ev…

> It would be in your Ove Glove, not in your floor tiles Would people buy oven gloves that had to be treated as hazardous waste? You’d likely have to build cost of eventual disposal into the sale price, a la WEEE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_Electrical_and_Electroni... > Same goes for lead paint Where would you see this being used?

>Would people buy oven gloves that had to be treated as hazardous waste?

You kind of answered your own question with the reference to e-waste. If the product confers some benefit and isn't hazardous in the form in which the users will use it then people will have no problem buying it.

>Where would you see this being used?

Things that very cost sensitive and aren't gonna see much human contact and will almost certainly enter a recycling stream before the paint wears off. 55gal drums come to mind.

Re: When Asbestos Was a Gift Fit for a King

#96

Post by kristofferR »

mypalmike wrote: post #64
purple_ferret wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All it takes to give you cancer is one asbestos fiber. Just has to punch through a lung cell and alter the DNA in just the right way. That said, the probability is low for any given fiber. There is asbestos in aftermarket break pads, meaning if you live in a major city, you probably breath in small amounts regularly.

> All it takes to give you cancer is one asbestos fiber. This is oft repeated, but is there evidence that it is true? Are the statistical odds of getting cancer from asbestos really modeled on the risk that you will encounter a single particularly insidious individual fiber?

The issue is that the lungs doesn't always manage to clean the asbestos fibers at all, so some may be stuck in the lungs forever. One stuck fiber might lead to a cancer. It's very unlikely of course, but it could happen. A thousand stuck fibers are a thousand times more likely to cause cancer, but just one could still be enough to do it.

With cigarettes for example it's different, since the self-cleaning process will clean and remove the remains of the cigarettes from the lungs fairly quickly unless the smoking is repeated over a long period of time and the system gets over-saturated and gradually breaks down.

Re: When Asbestos Was a Gift Fit for a King

#97

Post by [deleted] »

arethuza wrote: post #93
sandworm101 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less a tablecloth, more a placemat. And it is doubtful it was thrown onto the fire, where it would probably put the fire mostly out, rather than thrown into the fireplace to hang on something over the fire. There are also translation issues from royal to plain speak. Royals like this rarely did physical things. When the king is observed to "throw" something, it is more likely that he had it thrown by a servant who th…

Ancient royal lines often start with someone who is, as Neal Stephenson would put it, a stupendous badass. e.g. The current UK Royal Family have these chaps as ancestors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_the_Bruce

[deleted]

Re: When Asbestos Was a Gift Fit for a King

#98

Post by shawnz »

jhoechtl wrote: post #83
shawnz wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat related: carbon nanotubes have been shown to cause mesothelioma, just like asbestos

That sounds amazing and seems like a huge set-back to certain envisioned application areas of carbon nanotubes. Do you have a link to a study?

Here you are: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4243371/

Re: When Asbestos Was a Gift Fit for a King

#99

Post by userbinator »

growlist wrote: post #87
meowface wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the mechanism of action there? Do some people's lungs gradually clear away the asbestos particles more effectively than others'?

> Do some people's lungs gradually clear away the asbestos particles more effectively than others'? At least in terms of damage to the lungs, from what I gather (by reading wikipedia!) it's the degree of inflammatory response to the asbestos that is critical, not the presence of the asbestos itself. If your body thinks 'asbestos, oh shit!' and mounts a big response to attempt to wall off the particles etc. then you a…

Fun fact: asbestos is blowing around in the air pretty much everywhere at some level.

Since it is naturally occurring, it could be that some sort of natural selection has happened over time to cause people who live in naturally asbestos-rich areas to develop far greater immunity to its presence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbest

Re: When Asbestos Was a Gift Fit for a King

#100

Post by thedudeabides5 »

shawnz wrote: post #98
jhoechtl wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds amazing and seems like a huge set-back to certain envisioned application areas of carbon nanotubes. Do you have a link to a study?

Here you are: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4243371/

Interesting thanks.

If this guy is to be believed, asbestos and other "amphiboles" are different from nanotubes insofar as they have small metal/iron content, which you can imagine reacting with oxygen in the lungs in a harmful way that something made from pure carbon may not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuHL7hiFTnc

Now, on the other hand, if those carbon nanotube particles were all as sharp as tiny diamonds, you could imagine them being pretty bad to inhale.

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