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When Asbestos Was a Gift Fit for a King

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Re: When Asbestos Was a Gift Fit for a King

#61

Post by grawprog »

FriedPickles wrote: post #56

Did we overreact in banning asbestos from everything? In many applications it seems well contained. Maybe we can use it if we're careful about its manufacture and disposal? UPDATE: Apparently it's not outright banned in the US, but it is in many other countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos#United_States

It's not just the danger in consumer products. Asbestos mining is incredibly dangerous and has led to serious health problems for thousands of people.

https://mesowatch.com/asbestos-exposure/risk-industries/asbe...

>Because of this enormous risk of death from asbestos exposure and general mining operations, many experts consider asbestos mining to be one of the most dangerous occupations in history.

Re: When Asbestos Was a Gift Fit for a King

#62

Post by shadowprofile77 »

reyoz wrote: post #49

For a short backstory on Wittenoom, an former asbestos mining town in remote Western Australia see this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3LDoI7H1Gc I once worked with an environmental engineer who had a grandfather that worked at Wittenoom. He passed away due to mesothelioma, but her father who grew up there has not been affected, which is quite amazing given the circumstances. I have seen footage from Wittenoo…

From what I know and was also told by several doctors when a family member was dying of mesothelioma in his early 70's (despite never having worked more than casually a few times around asbestos in his much younger years), the illness is strongly suspected of being tied to a genetic predisposition that only affects a certain small percentage of people.

If one has this genetic disposition, it's apparently possible that even moderate or modest exposure early in life is enough to cause the (extremely deadly and almost impossible to treat) disease at some point later in life. This point can come years or decades after exposure.

And if one isn't predisposed, then even heavy exposure to asbestos probably won't cause mesothelioma. It is of course still possible to get other really shitty lung problems from the mineral regardless of genetic factors, but meso itself seems to be very selective. This apparently is why it's relatively rare despite widespread asbestos use for decades before recent years in much of the world.

Re: When Asbestos Was a Gift Fit for a King

#64

Post by mypalmike »

purple_ferret wrote: post #54
PHGamer wrote: post #5

is asbestos really that bad? or is it the long term affects. if charlemagne just used it a show off thing in the diner would it have really mattered?

All it takes to give you cancer is one asbestos fiber. Just has to punch through a lung cell and alter the DNA in just the right way. That said, the probability is low for any given fiber. There is asbestos in aftermarket break pads, meaning if you live in a major city, you probably breath in small amounts regularly.

> All it takes to give you cancer is one asbestos fiber.

This is oft repeated, but is there evidence that it is true? Are the statistical odds of getting cancer from asbestos really modeled on the risk that you will encounter a single particularly insidious individual fiber?

Re: When Asbestos Was a Gift Fit for a King

#65

Post by surround »

paulgerhardt wrote: post #25
PHGamer wrote: post #5

is asbestos really that bad? or is it the long term affects. if charlemagne just used it a show off thing in the diner would it have really mattered?

Yes, but in insidious ways. In the era of Charlemagne, many other things would have had significantly higher micromorts. As a dinner guest, I would have enjoyed the show rather than headed for the doors. At a dinner party today? No way. According to the official CDC report which was used by the EPA to ban new uses of asbestos [1] the gist is that asbestos isn't a traditional poison. We measure most "poisons" in terms…

Lets say I lined up a bunch of asbestos and snorted as much as possible. How fast could I possibly die?

Re: When Asbestos Was a Gift Fit for a King

#66

Post by liability »

dekhn wrote: post #34
liability wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sadly ironic that a fireproofing material meant to save lives has killed so many (a great deal more than it plausibly ever saved.)

I don't know what the actual rates of lived saved by asbestos vs lives taken in. It's one of the classic risk evaluation problems: fires are big, scary and dramatic, people know who died in them, and so a tool that prevents it is welcome. On the other hand, asbestos being dangerous really only came into being after people noticed a pattern of increased early death in asbestos mining towns. We just don't process the r…

I don't have a citation for that claim but mesothelioma kills tens of thousands a year. I think it's a safe guess that asbestos fireproofing hasn't been saving that many lives, at least not per year.

Re: When Asbestos Was a Gift Fit for a King

#67

Post by astura »

leptoniscool wrote: post #18
ermir wrote: post #16

For those that are unaware, if you or a loved one was diagnosed with Mesothelioma you may be entitled to financial compensation.

who's paying out?

I believe it's a reference to this commerical (a staple of daytime TV): https://youtu.be/zIJErVlVOY8

Re: When Asbestos Was a Gift Fit for a King

#68

Post by [deleted] »

labster wrote: post #39
sandworm101 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less a tablecloth, more a placemat. And it is doubtful it was thrown onto the fire, where it would probably put the fire mostly out, rather than thrown into the fireplace to hang on something over the fire. There are also translation issues from royal to plain speak. Royals like this rarely did physical things. When the king is observed to "throw" something, it is more likely that he had it thrown by a servant who th…

> Royals like this rarely did physical things. That might be true now but historically kings led armies into war, and had to be skilled enough to fight. We know the name of Charlemagne’s sword, Joyeuse.

[deleted]

Re: When Asbestos Was a Gift Fit for a King

#69

Post by userbinator »

surround wrote: post #65
paulgerhardt wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but in insidious ways. In the era of Charlemagne, many other things would have had significantly higher micromorts. As a dinner guest, I would have enjoyed the show rather than headed for the doors. At a dinner party today? No way. According to the official CDC report which was used by the EPA to ban new uses of asbestos [1] the gist is that asbestos isn't a traditional poison. We measure most "poisons" in terms…

Lets say I lined up a bunch of asbestos and snorted as much as possible. How fast could I possibly die?

According to the research, several decades... and it's not even a certainty that you'll get mesothelioma or asbestosis. But it definitely increases the risk.
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