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Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#561

Post by 29083011397778 »

asicsp wrote: post #134
joe_the_user wrote: post #31

Funny this post should come now. I've been dealing with a weird upgrade problem. I noticed a problem with various software on my Android phone about a month ago - some software had stopped because it couldn't upgrade and I wasn't able to download anything from the Play Store. It seemed the phone was waiting for wifi to do anything. The only problem was Wifi would come never 'cause of Covid. Moreover, changing Play St…

I have this issue. I don't use whatsapp much, but I wasn't able to update it, so I removed it rather than leaving my few friends wondering why I'm not replying to messages. I just checked drive to try your workaround - and it says old version, needs update, which of course I cannot do. Oh well. One of these days I will take the plunge and see if a factory reset will work.

There's a site (hosted by FB) that allows downloading the latest version of Whatsapp directly [1]. Should allow you to bypass the Play Store immediately :)

[1] https://www.whatsapp.com/android/

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#562

Post by orisho »

silon42 wrote: post #511
dreamcompiler wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any TV that won't work offline I'd consider defective and I'd send it back.

It works, until I attempt to use "network" when it asks me to register online. Haven't done it, if it was mandatory it would go back as non-functional... Not sure what problems occur if you do it once but then disconnect from internet.

You can give it a shot and then do a factory reset if anything stops working.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#563

Post by darkwater »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #257
darkwater wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm aware that I will sound condescending but... that's exactly why people "invented" opensource (and/or free software if you prefer). I'm sorry for your problem nonetheless.

You mean opensource has the same problem with updates, but you can always fork (which helps indeed).

Or stick to the same old version. Or know how your data is written and read and create a parser for it to migrate it to another program, even if the original author dies.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#564

Post by hutzlibu »

einpoklum wrote: post #457
hutzlibu wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In the long run, the utility of all non-Free software approaches zero." But to be fair, that is allmost true of any software, with changing archtectures programming languages etc. but a thousands times yes! With free software you have at least the option of doing the work of migrating.

Well, depends on what you mean by "long term". BSD-licensed low-level unix programs are still quite useful today and are likely to continue to be very useful in coming decades.

And I am sure there are still comercial modules around, from the 70s or earlier, as well..

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#565

Post by nitrogen »

echelon wrote: post #357
grishka wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A smart TV is dumb as long as it never sees an internet connection.

It could encode signal in inaudible high frequency audio that the Facebook app passively listens for.

There are encoded signals used by these things: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_People_Meter

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#567

Post by xg15 »

krageon wrote: post #359
Hackbraten wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate DRM, and I’m a free software advocate. However, if I were in the shoes of a TV content provider who relies on DRM, I would seriously consider lobbying system designers to prevent firmware downgrades. I wouldn’t want consumers to downgrade their systems and exploit already-patched vulnerabilities in order to circumvent DRM. One could argue that DRM is evil and wrong, too. But then again, it enables subscription…

The DRM module could be on a separate bit of memory from the actual OS, meaning that it would stay upgraded even if the rest was downgraded. It doesn't use fuses (AFAIK anyway), but f.e. the baseband on your phone works like this.

Isn't this effectively what a TPM is?

But I think this only works to an extent as, if you want your DRM not be trivially circumventable, it will be a cross-cutting concern and not easily restricted to a module.

E.g., the most secure TPM is useless if the OS simply ignores any responses and shows the movie anyway.

What you could do is to close off the whole media path: The OS only sees the encrypted media, which it sends to some combined TPM/decoding hardware, which more or less sends it directly to the screen. I believe to some extent this is what is done in practice.

You could technically see the TPM/graphics card/screen assembly as a "module" and can keep the OS separate of it - but this risks your "module" becoming so essentiall that it'll be unclear what is the dog and what is the tail.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#568

Post by xg15 »

rightbyte wrote: post #300
xg15 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Latest-generation devices contain hardware fuses purposely designed to make prevent downgrading. I think that tells you all you need to know about the position the industry has towards downgrades and whether updates are in the interest of the user or not.

Didn't know that. That is just sick.

Clarification: some latest-generation devices contain hardware fuses. I was specifically thinking about the Switch.

However I think there is absolutely a general trend in the industry to see downgrades as a risk that must be protected against.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#569

Post by xg15 »

Hackbraten wrote: post #348
xg15 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Latest-generation devices contain hardware fuses purposely designed to make prevent downgrading. I think that tells you all you need to know about the position the industry has towards downgrades and whether updates are in the interest of the user or not.

I hate DRM, and I’m a free software advocate. However, if I were in the shoes of a TV content provider who relies on DRM, I would seriously consider lobbying system designers to prevent firmware downgrades. I wouldn’t want consumers to downgrade their systems and exploit already-patched vulnerabilities in order to circumvent DRM. One could argue that DRM is evil and wrong, too. But then again, it enables subscription…

The problem I see is that this is a very slippery slope. There is a lot of money to be made and a lot of innovative business models to find on top of hardware that can be arbitrarily restricted. I'm not convinced at all this would stop with copy protection.

In fact, we can already see things like unskippable commercials, apps with dark patterns and deliberate anti-features, smart TVs that suddenly gain banner ads, and political conflicts being played out in app stores.

All of that stuff is only possible because consumer devices are locked down and answer first to the vendor, then to the user.

You can say that all if this is an exciting new market that unlocks enormous amounts of innovation - I just don't think this is the kind of innovation that we should want.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#570

Post by ubermonkey »

mcv wrote: post #474
ubermonkey wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not understand why people use internal "smarts" on so-called SmartTVs at all . These companies are not software companies. They are not trustworthy, either. I have a nice "smart" Samsung. But it's never even been on my network. I get streaming from an AppleTV, but insert your favorite flavor.

I have a Samsung smart TV, and it's really convenient to watch Netflix, Disney+ or Youtube straight on the TV. (We don't really watch regular TV anymore.) Problem is: we are dependent on Samsung. If they don't support a particular streaming service, we're out of luck. And I have no doubt they have the ability to cripple our experience.

I mean, exactly. Why let them have that control?

My TV is also an output device only in my A/V stack. My receiver handles all the switching duties from the various sources. I have no signal path back to the receiver from the TV, which would be necessary to get audio from any on-board streaming apps.

But that's really just a side issue, because using a well-made streaming box provides a drastically better experience than using whatever garbage $TV_Co put in.

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