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Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

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Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Start by self reflection on your hypocrisy. Do you feel bad about regularly using services from a country which has committed and supported some of the worst war crimes and genocide in history? (if not obvious, I am referring to the US)

You lost me with "in history" did you just forget the last 200 years?

USA, probably the only country where after shooting down a civilian airliner you get decorated for doing good job.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#152
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Global Times report on him long after he had already made the trip and blogged about it? Or are you saying: it's all one big scheme, planned way up front?

Given his Twitter feed looks like a Chinese diplomat's[1], I would assume he is part of the pro-Beijing influence network. I mean, why would someone dedicate 6 months of their life to convincing the world that something isn't happening which is reported on widely (even by some limited Chinese media)? I have no idea if he is scheming with the the government or if he is simply trying to curry favour, but if you are a g…

You think he’s spreading propaganda. Ok, fine. But I have issue with you saying “that which is reported widely”, as if the other side is entirely honest and truthful. In reality, both sides are distributing propaganda. I fear that, although you are skeptical of Chinese propaganda, you fail to recognize or be skeptical of Western propaganda at the same time.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#153
post #96

There is a Canadian named Jerry Grey, who went on a bicycle ride in China. He literally rode hundreds of kilometers in Xinjiang, away from mainstream tourist attractions, to remote places he himself is interested in. He was able to do that without government supervision; all the government checkpoints let him pass without much scrutiny. What he reports on is very different from mainstream media reports. One of his bl…

The section on separatism is unadulterated pro-authoritarianism. Examples of regions that have peacefully seceded from a nation abound. Norway from Sweden, Greenland and Iceland from Denmark, multiple states from the former Soviet Union. Scotland had a referendum on independence recently and though they chose to stay part of the UK, there was no threat or chance of violence. Freedom to seceded, or coerced union are b…

> It's oppressive enough of minorities just in the relatively peaceful areas I've visited.

What first-hand things (that you saw for yourself) can you use to corroborate this?

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#154
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given his Twitter feed looks like a Chinese diplomat's[1], I would assume he is part of the pro-Beijing influence network. I mean, why would someone dedicate 6 months of their life to convincing the world that something isn't happening which is reported on widely (even by some limited Chinese media)? I have no idea if he is scheming with the the government or if he is simply trying to curry favour, but if you are a g…

You think he’s spreading propaganda. Ok, fine. But I have issue with you saying “that which is reported widely”, as if the other side is entirely honest and truthful. In reality, both sides are distributing propaganda. I fear that, although you are skeptical of Chinese propaganda, you fail to recognize or be skeptical of Western propaganda at the same time.

> But I have issue with you saying “that which is reported widely”, as if the other side is entirely honest and truthful. In reality, both sides are distributing propaganda. I fear that, although you are skeptical of Chinese propaganda, you fail to recognize or be skeptical of Western propaganda at the same time.

You're making a false equivalence by oversimplifying things into symmetrical "sides." The Chinese state-owned media and propaganda apparatus have an established history of frequently spreading false or misleading claims for propaganda purposes. While Western media sometimes does get a story wrong or sometimes gets misled by their sources, they make a far greater effort to ensure objective accuracy, and are thus far more trustworthy.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#155
post #96

There is a Canadian named Jerry Grey, who went on a bicycle ride in China. He literally rode hundreds of kilometers in Xinjiang, away from mainstream tourist attractions, to remote places he himself is interested in. He was able to do that without government supervision; all the government checkpoints let him pass without much scrutiny. What he reports on is very different from mainstream media reports. One of his bl…

The section on separatism is unadulterated pro-authoritarianism. Examples of regions that have peacefully seceded from a nation abound. Norway from Sweden, Greenland and Iceland from Denmark, multiple states from the former Soviet Union. Scotland had a referendum on independence recently and though they chose to stay part of the UK, there was no threat or chance of violence. Freedom to seceded, or coerced union are b…

> Examples of regions that have peacefully seceded from a nation abound. Norway from Sweden, Greenland and Iceland from Denmark, multiple states from the former Soviet Union.

Czechia and Slovakia in 1993.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#156
post #101
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's definitionally a propaganda arm of the government. If you think that we're the good guys, then they're the good guys, but they're still propaganda. If it's propaganda, it's propaganda for western-style journalism and liberal values. The question shouldn't be "is it state sponsored or not;" it should be "is its reporting reliable or not." On that question, RFA's reporting on this topic has gotten the endorsemen…

> On that question, RFA's reporting on this topic has gotten the endorsement of the news pages of at least one top-tier American paper. While we like to consider the mainstream press as completely free and unbiased, I think it's fair to remind everyone that in the early 2000s all publications were parroting the US lie that Iraq was hiding WMDs. Something similar happened last year with the election in Bolivia and sub…

"...I think it's fair to remind everyone that in the early 2000s all publications were parroting the US lie that Iraq was hiding WMDs." Afair most news organisations were pretty sceptical about those claims. There were also a few leaks from the intelligence community that were sceptical and complained about the pressure from the administration.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's my guess. Also, I think there are some jumps in the severity of things in your examples that probably come off as bad faith. Your list is not quite as bad as A. Just helping the Uighurs, but maybe not in the best way. B. Just killing all the Uighurs. But I think a lot of people have issue with your list not considering the fact that there may be something between full killing/genocide and only some of them bei…

I don’t think your comment is rude. It makes sense, even if I don’t agree with people who think the way you describe it. I made a best effort to describe the various possibilities that I think exist. I just think that it’s silly when so many people condemn China for being unfree, yet at the same time throw away their free society values of encouraging discussions and respecting each others’ opinions, when it comes to…

I'd like to ask, do you pretty much believe your option A? If so, what do you think of the Buzzfeed News investigation and reporting? Also, do you thing the re-education of Uighurs and others is the right thing for the Communist Party to be doing?

I understand you may not want to comment publicly here, so if you want, feel free to email me (my profile has my email).

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#158
post #64

Vice also went undercover last year to get footage of Xinjiang in-person: https://youtu.be/v7AYyUqrMuQ

"Individuals cannot accept interviews without government approval." [12:06] Does anyone know if this is a law?

Foreign journalists cannot even enter xinjiang and travel around freely without 24x7 accompaniment by a government employee escort.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#159

There is a Canadian named Jerry Grey, who went on a bicycle ride in China. He literally rode hundreds of kilometers in Xinjiang, away from mainstream tourist attractions, to remote places he himself is interested in. He was able to do that without government supervision; all the government checkpoints let him pass without much scrutiny. What he reports on is very different from mainstream media reports. One of his bl…

Blog post that casts doubt on Adrian Zenz - likely CCP propaganda. I've noticed this a trend in the last few months on Reddit and other forums where random people are trying to smear the guy. If you browse through his other posts, its clear this Jerry Grey is anti-US, pro-China and pandering.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#160
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Individuals cannot accept interviews without government approval." [12:06] Does anyone know if this is a law?

I’m not sure about giving but you need a license/approval before you can interview someone. Many western youtubers came under scrutiny for it.

> you need a license/approval before you can interview someone

[citation needed]

> Many western youtubers came under scrutiny for it.

came under scrutiny by whom? Their audience or CCP?

Disclaimer: I'm a China national.

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