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SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

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Re: SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

#281

Post by reportingsjr »

ls612 wrote: post #268
reportingsjr wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, why should the majority of us in denser areas in the US subsidize people who want to live in exurbs/rural areas? If you want to live in a place like that, be prepared to pay the cost for the infrastructure. We already pay enough subsidies for roads, water, power, etc in rural/exurban areas.

Why should the rural people in podunk nowhere subsidize our food? Ultimately it is in the best interest of cities to keep on good terms with their breadbasket.

Again, people are trying to frame this as an "all people in exurbs and rural areas are farmers" and this straight up is not true in the slightest. The issue here is that massive numbers of people move to the far out of the way places which requires an inordinate amount of resources to support, and there is this expectation that everyone else should pay up to let them live that lifestyle.

Here's a example of these sort of areas on the midwest: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9232568,-84.4006112,11979m/d...

Almost none of the land in that area is farmland, yet I've had coworkers who got USDA loans for houses in the middle of this area while working white collar jobs.

For the last couple of few years a local developer keeps lobbying to have a multibillion dollar highway built through this area so they can develop more suburbs. http://www.cincyeasternbypass.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02...

Why does everyone else have to keep paying for this garbage? When you bring up things like toll roads all of these people scream their heads off, because they know it means they wont be getting their subsidies (ironic considering how many people in these areas are highly conservative, anti-subsidy).

This isn't about subsidizing farmers, this is about subsidizing people's choice to live an unsustainable life style.

Re: SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

#282

Post by reportingsjr »

gsich wrote: post #263
reportingsjr wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A massive number of the people that live in rural areas are not providing food and key materials. In fact, the amount of farmland and farmers has been declining for years due to increases in agricultural efficiency (green revolution). I've got no problem (to a point) subsidizing infrastructure for farmers and other key jobs, but acting like all of these people who insist on living in an incredibly unsustainable way d…

Does that matter? Not really. Infrastructure (Internet counts as that) should be available everywhere people live. Who knows, one day you might be in such a situation.

Sure, just expect that if you're going to live that way by choice, pay the costs for it!

Re: SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

#283

Post by ohgodplsno »

thehappypm wrote: post #226
apexalpha wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm healthy but I pay for those who are not. I grew up fine but I pay for those with special needs. I have a job during Covid but I pay for those who don't. I guess in Europe we call this 'society'.

Europeans really barely understand the US. Yes, of course, we understand how investing in communities makes a society work. What Europeans don’t understand is just how fucking huge the US is and how low-density huge swaths of the country are. Farmers might live 500 miles from a metro of 100,000 people. It’s a huge challenge to give everyone fiber without the 1% of hyper rural America doubling costs for everyone else.

Yes, yes, all of Europe fits into Texas, and even Texas fits into Texas, and that's just one state. We get how mind-bogglingly huge the US is. It's been said over and over again by every single american whenever the subject of your subpar infrastructure comes up.

Europe is just as big. Not as dense, maybe. But your telcos were given hundreds of billions to do something (that should have been the job of the government), and simply pocketed them, with your government doing nothing about it.

So, if that money was properly invested, instead of polluting low orbit, that'd be nice.

Re: SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

#284

Post by syshum »

patentatt wrote: post #248
syshum wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry but how it is the role of government to provide everyone with internet? The American government "refuses" because there is no Constitutional Authority for which it could use to provide such a service, and that is a good thing People seem to think government should just provide everything to everyone, the government should be very limited in size and scope, and providing internet is WELL outside what a limi…

Article I, Section 8, Clause 7 of the United States Constitution, known as the Postal Clause or the Postal Power, empowers Congress "To establish Post Offices and Post Roads." In an alternate reality, it’s easy to see how this could be interpreted broadly as meaning the government has an impetus to provide for communications infrastructure.

This clause like many others have been abused to the point there the literal words do not mean anything, this is the so call "living document" interpretation of the constitution, one that should be rejected as it sets in place a "standard" that the words mean what ever we choose them to mean

There was an Amendment process put in place expressly to prevent the type of "reinterpretation" you are advocating for, if we the people desire the US Federal Government to provide us with Internet then we the people need to pass an constitutional amendment declaring that power

Re: SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

#285

Post by menybuvico »

apexalpha wrote: post #205
sgt wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But are all villages in France like that? I doubt it. Even in Norway there are thousands of people without access to sufficiently fast broadband, and some 80k DSL customers who apparently will never get fiber at all. The proposed solution for the latter is to use 4G/5G, which comes with its own issues of course. I'd say even in well developed countries, Starlink is a nice option to have. As I understand it, the 42Mbp…

Eventually everyone is going to get connected, yes. I mean someone in Norway also had to draw a powerline to these people, to use electricity. Why not draw a fiber link, too? It's just part of infrastructure. I'm not saying that Starlink isn't useful. I'm just really wondering what the implications for astronomy are going to be, whether we will always see these things at dusk. Now it's Starlink, but what if 3 or 4 co…

The power lines were, to a large extent, built with U.S. money after the war. Many rural areas have seen little infrastructure investments since then.

Anyway, if governments, businesses and individuals care enough then it's easy enough to develop that infrastructure now. The satellites will come down in a few years.

Who volunteers to tell Musk?

Re: SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

#286

Post by syshum »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #264
syshum wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry but how it is the role of government to provide everyone with internet? The American government "refuses" because there is no Constitutional Authority for which it could use to provide such a service, and that is a good thing People seem to think government should just provide everything to everyone, the government should be very limited in size and scope, and providing internet is WELL outside what a limi…

The US spent a bunch of money on rural electrification back in the day. It’s hard to see how this is much different.

There are a few ways to look at this, while your statement is true it in no way refutes my position that it is a proper role of government unless one also believed the Rual Electrification was also proper use of government

the after effects of these government monopolies have been felt by scandal after scandal

Further before these enforced government monopoly on power farms were using a distributed network of Wind Generators, which Ironically are now being put back into place on some of these very same farms but instead of being able to give the farms good power they are being put in place by these came corrupt government run power companies

Had the government not interfered in the market place who knows what out have happened, may renewable energy and distributed power networks would have emerged decades sooner instead of just not emerging as a replacement for Coal power

Re: SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

#287

Post by flingo »

apexalpha wrote: post #221
dx87 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all your anti-american rambling, you are ignoring that SpaceX isn't the only company doing this. > Other operators include the London-based OneWeb, which has launched 74 of what it hopes will be a gigantic fleet of 48,000 satellites

It's not anti-American rambling. As I said in my other comment I'm aware of other companies doing the same. Although an American company will be first, with clearance from the American government. I'm more drawn to the fact that the American government can greenlight this, even though it has global implications. These things will also impact astronomy in Argentina. Where can they lodge a complaint? They will impact t…

> I'm more drawn to the fact that the American government can greenlight this, even though it has global implications.

They only need to greenlight the launch, and radio-transmissions over the US.

As far as I know, there is no central authority anywhere to stop you from putting/keeping a satellite in a certain orbit. (aside from someone else moving it out of that orbit by force)

Space border laws aren't super-well developed yet.

Re: SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

#288

Post by syshum »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #283
thehappypm wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europeans really barely understand the US. Yes, of course, we understand how investing in communities makes a society work. What Europeans don’t understand is just how fucking huge the US is and how low-density huge swaths of the country are. Farmers might live 500 miles from a metro of 100,000 people. It’s a huge challenge to give everyone fiber without the 1% of hyper rural America doubling costs for everyone else.

Yes, yes, all of Europe fits into Texas, and even Texas fits into Texas, and that's just one state. We get how mind-bogglingly huge the US is. It's been said over and over again by every single american whenever the subject of your subpar infrastructure comes up. Europe is just as big. Not as dense, maybe. But your telcos were given hundreds of billions to do something (that should have been the job of the government…

I have zero intrest in having the government control my access to information, no thank you

That the biggest thing Europeans do not understand about the US, many of us hate our government, distrust our government, and the only thing we desire from government is for them to leave us alone..

The US is a individualist nation, not a collectivist nation, though many are trying very hard to change that.

Re: SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

#289

Post by pedrocr »

thehappypm wrote: post #226
apexalpha wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm healthy but I pay for those who are not. I grew up fine but I pay for those with special needs. I have a job during Covid but I pay for those who don't. I guess in Europe we call this 'society'.

Europeans really barely understand the US. Yes, of course, we understand how investing in communities makes a society work. What Europeans don’t understand is just how fucking huge the US is and how low-density huge swaths of the country are. Farmers might live 500 miles from a metro of 100,000 people. It’s a huge challenge to give everyone fiber without the 1% of hyper rural America doubling costs for everyone else.

This argument shows up in all these discussions and is way way overused. The EU only has ~2-3x the population density of the USA. It's not even a single order of magnitude and people have already given examples of how very remote places in Europe have very reasonable infrastructure. If you already have telephone and/or electricity poles to somewhere running fiber is definitely an easy problem to tackle for what is supposed to be the world's most advanced economy. Capture by telco special interests is a much more likely explanation.

Re: SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

#290

Post by pedrocr »

syshum wrote: post #288
ohgodplsno wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, yes, all of Europe fits into Texas, and even Texas fits into Texas, and that's just one state. We get how mind-bogglingly huge the US is. It's been said over and over again by every single american whenever the subject of your subpar infrastructure comes up. Europe is just as big. Not as dense, maybe. But your telcos were given hundreds of billions to do something (that should have been the job of the government…

I have zero intrest in having the government control my access to information, no thank you That the biggest thing Europeans do not understand about the US, many of us hate our government, distrust our government, and the only thing we desire from government is for them to leave us alone.. The US is a individualist nation, not a collectivist nation, though many are trying very hard to change that.

You have it backwards. Almost none of the telecom infrastructure in Europe is state owned. As the comment you are replying to explained it's in the US where huge government incentives were paid out to telecom companies for broadband deployment who then proceeded to pocket that money and sit on their hands.
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