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SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

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Re: SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

#201

Post by sgt »

apexalpha wrote: post #199

So I guess companies will now fill the entire global sky with thousands of sats just to make up for the fact that the US government ignores rural houses when it comes to digital infrastructure? I'm sorry but how is 42Mbps worth spamming the entire nightsky with to the point that it prevent astronomers from obtaining useful data? Not even 10Mbps upload? My inlaws live in a village in France that has 70 people total. I…

But are all villages in France like that? I doubt it.

Even in Norway there are thousands of people without access to sufficiently fast broadband, and some 80k DSL customers who apparently will never get fiber at all. The proposed solution for the latter is to use 4G/5G, which comes with its own issues of course.

I'd say even in well developed countries, Starlink is a nice option to have. As I understand it, the 42Mbps they see now is only going to improve as well.

Re: SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

#202

Post by ShorsHammer »

apexalpha wrote: post #199

So I guess companies will now fill the entire global sky with thousands of sats just to make up for the fact that the US government ignores rural houses when it comes to digital infrastructure? I'm sorry but how is 42Mbps worth spamming the entire nightsky with to the point that it prevent astronomers from obtaining useful data? Not even 10Mbps upload? My inlaws live in a village in France that has 70 people total. I…

If your inlaws weren't scheduled to get an upgrade to fibre and were instead cut off from the world due to costs of servicing remote areas would this comment be different in any way?

It's a _big_ world.

Re: SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

#203

Post by iso1210 »

raducu wrote: post #117
emteycz wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could zigzagging through fiber be faster thaz zigzagging through vacuum? You still need to cross nearly the same distance with fiber.

The fiber is a fixed geometry. The satellite mesh is not, a straight line from point A to point B is not possible most of the time, given the number of satellites available and range of laser communication in space.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEIUdMiColU is an animation of how it's supposed to work, including latencies

There are enough satelites and low enough routing on the lasers to mean packets will arrive from London to NY faster than even a great-circle fibre.

In reality how much bandwidth is available is a function of money, and HFTs tend to have a lot of money.

Re: SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

#204

Post by adventured »

qayxc wrote: post #184
kumarvvr wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine the military setting up an internet base station and releasing remote controlled drones for surveillance or military operations. Having satellite based high speed internet would be a game changer for remote locations. Imagine being able to conduct a robot controller surgery in Africa, by a doctor in the US. Currently, not possible, but with high speed satellite based internet, it could be. Imagine an electric…

> Imagine being able to conduct a robot controller surgery in Africa, by a doctor in the US. Highly unlikely for many reasons: latency too high, cost of equipment way too high, only very few hospitals are even equipped for remote surgery even in the West, let alone underdeveloped countries... > Imagine an electrical engineer being able to help his colleagues in Africa That's already possible even without satellite-ba…

> only very few hospitals are even equipped for remote surgery even in the West, let alone underdeveloped countries...

You're talking about today, which is the lowest potential time scenario. How about the time frame of 15-20 years from now? It'll take years just to fully build out Starlink's constellation, then many more years to fully spread its use. Remote surgery will continue to expand, becoming increasingly common, and the prices will come down. As that process unfolds, you will increasingly see the major robotic-assisted surgery companies donate (or otherwise massively subsidize) equipment to poorer nations, exactly as is done with very expensive drugs now. Also, while today robotic-assisted surgery costs are very high (dominated by companies like Intuitive or Stryker), China and others will eventually fully knock down that door and flood the market with lower cost systems that are 85% good enough and will become very widely used.

It's also more likely that it'll be highly skilled doctors in one less developed nation doing work in another less developed nation. That will help keep the costs down more than the parent's example. US doctors will likely do most of their remote work within the US (other than charitable work), where they can command far higher fees.

Re: SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

#205

Post by apexalpha »

sgt wrote: post #201
apexalpha wrote: post #199

So I guess companies will now fill the entire global sky with thousands of sats just to make up for the fact that the US government ignores rural houses when it comes to digital infrastructure? I'm sorry but how is 42Mbps worth spamming the entire nightsky with to the point that it prevent astronomers from obtaining useful data? Not even 10Mbps upload? My inlaws live in a village in France that has 70 people total. I…

But are all villages in France like that? I doubt it. Even in Norway there are thousands of people without access to sufficiently fast broadband, and some 80k DSL customers who apparently will never get fiber at all. The proposed solution for the latter is to use 4G/5G, which comes with its own issues of course. I'd say even in well developed countries, Starlink is a nice option to have. As I understand it, the 42Mbp…

Eventually everyone is going to get connected, yes.

I mean someone in Norway also had to draw a powerline to these people, to use electricity. Why not draw a fiber link, too? It's just part of infrastructure.

I'm not saying that Starlink isn't useful. I'm just really wondering what the implications for astronomy are going to be, whether we will always see these things at dusk.

Now it's Starlink, but what if 3 or 4 companies in total want to have a network? What if on top of that China and India want their own, just like GPS?

It just seems we're running head first into this without anyone thinking of the implications or governance of it.

Re: SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

#206

Post by reportingsjr »

apexalpha wrote: post #199

So I guess companies will now fill the entire global sky with thousands of sats just to make up for the fact that the US government ignores rural houses when it comes to digital infrastructure? I'm sorry but how is 42Mbps worth spamming the entire nightsky with to the point that it prevent astronomers from obtaining useful data? Not even 10Mbps upload? My inlaws live in a village in France that has 70 people total. I…

On the flip side, why should the majority of us in denser areas in the US subsidize people who want to live in exurbs/rural areas? If you want to live in a place like that, be prepared to pay the cost for the infrastructure.

We already pay enough subsidies for roads, water, power, etc in rural/exurban areas.

Re: SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

#207

Post by dmd »

wasmitnetzen wrote: post #200
dmd wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm struggling to imagine a network path that could induce a 1-2 second delay from one side of the world to the other. Even at just 50% of c-in-vacuum that's only a tenth of a second.

There's a lot of active gear introducing delays between those ends. Pinging www.govt.nz, which is about 17000km from me and as close to the antipode as I can find in a quick search, pings at around 300 to 400ms, so only at about 15 to 20% of c.

Huh. My nearest land antipode (from Boston, MA, USA) is Perth, and I get about 150ms ping to there. Regardless, even 400 ms is a far cry from 2000 ms.

Re: SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

#208

Post by Thlom »

Torkel wrote: post #26
moritonal wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you expand on which industries will be improved? My normal life is covered entirely by 4G, with 5G now appearing. I guess you mean things like internet on planes, shipping internet, off-shore rigs? But what things can't they do at the moment because of prohibitorily slow/costly satellite internet?

Here's one: Teleoperation / autonomy in remote areas. Forestry. Mining. Not sure how big this, objectively speaking money-wise, but for teleop/autonomy it sure does enable new things when there is true 100% coverage everywhere on earth.

Already being done with existing satellite services.

Starlink is cool and al, but satellite internet isn't new. Both forestry, mining and farming is utilising existing satellite services for monitoring and operations.

Starlink is better than all existing services, but with some drawbacks. Like it will be really expensive to provide service in really remote areas until sat to sat relay is possible as there must be a ground station within 500 km radius of the satellite. This means that to provide service in the Amazonas SpaceX will have to build ground stations in the Amazonas. To provide service in the Pacific and Atlantic SpaceX will have to deploy several floating ground stations in the middle of the oceans.

Again, not taking anything away from Space X. Starlink is really cool and will be a wake up call for the satcom industry, but satcom is not a new thing and Starlink have significant drawbacks for the time being.

Re: SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

#209

Post by kmm »

seer wrote: post #163
koonsolo wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder when the first CDN's will be put into space when this will become broadly used.

This got me thinking... people _will_ start putting infra into space sooner or later, just for the better latency. Imagine the new availability zones in aws/gcp/azure :) Could definitely lead to more investment into space, more money to SpaceX / Blue Origin / etc for their new-gen lift vehicles.

Would that not be impossible because of the lack of effective cooling in space? The only way to get rid of heat in space is by radiation, which is a very inefficient process. Assuming temperatures cannot rise above 100°C, every square meter of radiator fin emits at most a kilowatt. And because half the orbit is spent in direct sunlight, a significant part of the surface area will have to be reflective, making it useless for radiating heat.

Also, where'd you get the power? Solar panels will only yield a kilowatt per square meter at most, for half of the orbit. Beam it up from Earth?

Re: SpaceX Starlink average speedtest is 42.3Mbps down / 9.7 Mbps up

#210

Post by tomohawk »

apexalpha wrote: post #199

So I guess companies will now fill the entire global sky with thousands of sats just to make up for the fact that the US government ignores rural houses when it comes to digital infrastructure? I'm sorry but how is 42Mbps worth spamming the entire nightsky with to the point that it prevent astronomers from obtaining useful data? Not even 10Mbps upload? My inlaws live in a village in France that has 70 people total. I…

We are working with a county in West Virginia that is 2 hours by car from Washington DC. 2 hours!

The school officials have decided to do remote schooling.

Fully 50% of the students have no internet at all.

Another 30% have internet that is incapable of remote.

You might say that they're too poor. And that is part of it. But there are plenty of people with lots of money in DC and the surrounding area that would be interested in moving here or having a vacation cabin, but cannot buy internet access for any amount of money. It just doesn't exist.

The communication laws desperately need an upgrade from the 1930s laws on the books that regulate everything like it is a telephone invented in the 1800s.

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