Why Johnny Won't Upgrade • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#111

Post by rurp » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 3:39 AM UTC

Man this article really echos my thoughts, which is surprising because I almost always feel like an outsider in Techland for hating updates that change perfectly good tools.

"But it's new!" is my most hated justification for changing software. If a tool works I almost always want it left alone. I don't care about the new layout or some new features. I'm using the software because it already suits my needs and I don't want to waste time and mental energy figuring out some changes that are useless to me.

I wish far more companies followed the approach laid out here. I think it would be far more respectful of users in almost all cases.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#112

Post by Tijdreiziger » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 3:39 AM UTC

bilegeek wrote: post #85

gruez wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is such a method how you did this, or did you unfurl your sails? Neither. Ended up using a msdn key.

If it's safe to say so - I don't wanna jeopardize your methods here - how did you obtain it? As far as I can tell, normal consumers can't buy them "legit", but they are "illegitimately" resold anyways, which makes rejection of their "validity" during activation a possibility (assuming Microsoft finds out, of course).

It's not illegal to resell software (at least in the EU).

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#113

Post by prawn » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 3:39 AM UTC

My App Store updates badge is triple-digits. I resist updates as long as possible because they are almost always riskier than the rewards they bring. They introduce ads, or cloud features I never wanted, they force subscriptions, they add tracking.

At one point, I used my ancient text editor for 10+ years without updating it. I've used Sublime Text 2 for many years with no interest in updating it (though I'm sure it's better, it just does everything I need already). I used a version of non-monthly-payment Adobe Creative Suite for around 10 years without upgrading - I was still using the same file formats and didn't need anything new.

Almost every time I've updated an app, I've been burnt. Cruft I don't need, ads I don't want, phoning home on start up - ugh.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#114

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 3:40 AM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #90

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #39

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and has the right to share it. Even in the case it may be unpopular amongst certain groups. As an end user, I do not like automatic updates (which may or may not be "upgrades"). I try to avoid software that relies on this approach wherever I can. I consciously choose software that is not in constant flux, unless something is broken. There is not a single software author that I trust…

> I prefer to evaluate software before I install it. How do you do this?

[deleted]

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#115

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 3:42 AM UTC

tomc1985 wrote: post #102

spaetzleesser wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"shareholders are the only people that companies are legally beholden to" I don't think that's actual true. As far as I know the only legal obligation a company has is to conduct lawful business.

Shareholders can sue if they do not think their interests are being properly represented/manifested. They can also arbitrarily shuffle senior management as they see fit Neither customers nor employees can do that

[deleted]

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#116

Post by gfxgirl » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 3:42 AM UTC

hkmurakami wrote: post #93

Aerroon wrote: post #91

I wholeheartedly agree with the article. Software companies have created a culture, where (some) users deliberately do not want to update their software. For the last few major Windows updates I've had to reconfigure my sound setup, because the update breaks it by changing default sound devices and what feeds into what. Recently, a Chrome update (silently) broke an add-on that allowed me to easily switch audio device…

Updated Instagram on a whim. Instantly regretted having Reels shoved in my face with no way to remove it.

I agree with the upgrade hate on this page but ...

There are lots exceptions. Instagram is a hosted image service not an app. There is an app, that app is just a front end for the service. Being a service it's no different than any other service. You go into a restaurant, you like the ambiance. You go back and they've remodeled and you no longer like it. You go to the bakery and enjoy the friendly person behind the counter. They quit and you don't like their replacement. etc...

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#117

Post by makecheck » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 3:42 AM UTC

It’s interesting he mentioned media such as ROMs because I often wish I could force the system to pretend that certain things really are in ROM: “I don’t want you to touch them, even if you otherwise would”.

Of course, ridiculous bundling of software features makes any partitioning difficult.

A recent macOS update is a good example of ridiculous bundling: half the release notes (and the first notes listed) for this “OS update” were for “Apple News+”, and the other actual OS update notes — that looked infinitely more important — were left to scroll out of view. To hell with Apple News+!! Features of an application (that I do not even subscribe to) should never have become part of the OS, much less updated through first-class bundling with fixes to the OS itself!

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#118

Post by cringepirate » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 3:43 AM UTC

tomc1985 wrote: post #65

cs702 wrote: post #8

As a user of software, I couldn't agree more with the OP that automatic updates: > should always keep the user centric > should be incremental and security or bug fixes only > should never update a user interface without allowing the previous one to be used as the default > should never be used to install telemetry or spyware or to re-enable it if it was previously switched off > should never be used to install other…

That will never happen as long as shareholders are the only people that companies are legally beholden to That will never happen as long as software continues to be regarded as a "cost center" That will never happen as long as developers insist that their happiness is more immportant than that of their users That will never happen as long as evangelists keep pushing this doctrine that more updates, more features, mor…

No you got it the wrong way around. The power is in the hands of the user.

> That will never happen as long as shareholders are the only people that companies are legally beholden to

The user has a choice not to use products that are made by companies that don't respect them.

> That will never happen as long as developers insist that their happiness is more immportant than that of their users

The user can simply stop using the software if the developer doesn't respect their time (happiness is a completely subjective property dependant on the individual).

So I say this will never happen while people won't actively move for alternatives and put up with crappy products.

I made the effort to stop using products from large companies that don't respect my privacy and don't respect freedom of speech of their users. So whenever possible I don't use any products from the large tech companies.

If people can't be bothered and choose to be ignorant, they deserve what they get.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#119

Post by donio » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 3:46 AM UTC

Emacs is the only major piece of software that I look forward to upgrading. With everything else it's a worry about what functionality will I lose this time.

Re: Why Johnny Won't Upgrade

#120

Post by hansvm » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 3:48 AM UTC

orev wrote: post #106

I had been using a great app that’s been around since before the iPhone came out (PocketMoney on Palm). They rewrote it for IOS, and it was able to import the database from the Palm version. Really great. Then sadly the author died, and it languished for a while until it was sold to someone else. The new owner seemed to try to keep it going, but then finally gave up last year and crammed an absolutely awful “update”…

Navionics had a variety of bathymetric charts in the app store that underwent a similar fate when they were bought by Garmin. It didn't matter that I'd paid $20-$30 (forget the exact value) for a lifetime license on a piece of software; they felt the need to shove a crippling update onto the version I'd paid for before releasing a new product line.

On the bright side, in the years since I bought their app a free, better competitor was released, but I still don't think that absolves them of their responsibility.