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Rethinking the App Store

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Re: Rethinking the App Store

#31

Post by throwaway13337 »

neiman wrote: post #21

Fantastically well-written article. The "problem" with forming an opinion about Apple Store rules is that the users are willingly and knowingly putting themselves in the golden cage of apple by buying an iPhone. Under this view the problem is not with Apple, that created a framework that users want, and communicate accurately to its customers what they get - but rather with the app developers, who wants to reach Appl…

This is a bad argument that comes up over and over.

You could use the exact same logical framework to argue against labor laws because employees willingly enter into the bargain.

It's easy to see the ends of completely unregulated capitalism with company towns, company scrip, and the oppression that comes with it.

We've had this history - we don't need it again.

Re: Rethinking the App Store

#32

Post by willvarfar »

I'm divided.

As a programmer, I'm as happy as a pig in mud in the low-level innards of my computers and operating systems, and like that I can get at them etc. That's why I have linux on my desktop.

But 'open' systems don't work out well for 'normal' users. Remember the viruses and trojans and instability and all the rest of the Windows days, or Android?

I want my parents and friends and everyone else to use an iphone because its hassle-free and secure.

Do we really want 'unlocked' iphones? Actually, the idea of having to help someone who wants me to 'just look at the iphone and work out what's wrong' scares me.

Re: Rethinking the App Store

#33

Post by dna_polymerase »

Hendrikto wrote: post #25
supermatt wrote: post #13

I am of the opinion that the only fair option is to allow 3rd party stores with the same permissions as the official app store. Apples curation isn't (as they suggest) preventing malware, theft of information, etc - this if verifiably false given recent history with apps like tiktok stealing clipboard content. The ability to change content of payment screens post-approval (as epic have just done) also means that cura…

> with apps like tiktok stealing clipboard content I do not get the focus on TikTok. Yes, it read your clipboard content… just like Snapchat, Instagram, Reddit, etc. Most security researchers agree that TikTok is among the more restrained social media apps, when it comes to gathering user data. This is a bad look for the social media landscape in general, not TikTok specifically.

But TikTok is Chinese and therefore bad. At least that is what the orange man tells us.

Surveillance capitalism is an American invention, China just copied that.

Re: Rethinking the App Store

#34

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

cesher wrote: post #12
bluesign wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have totally wrong expectation about developers. - Ask any reasonable dev if they are willing to foot a fixed cost to get their app screened I don’t think most devs will support this, considering the constant arguments about IOS development requiring yearly $100 fee.

Read Job’s quote in the article, someone has to foot the bill to ensure the quality of Apps on the store. $100 a year seems reasonable to me for unlimited App screenings imho.

$100/year is peanuts. It’s a relatively token amount, designed to discourage “non-serious” players, like a minimum bet.

It certainly doesn’t make them money. It just helps to ensure that the people who do use their developer services are ones more likely to generate the revenue that does make them money.

This is something that Apple’s development community is known for. There’s fewer of them, but they do make money.

I’m not weighing in on the issue on either side. They each have quite valid arguments, and I’ll deal with whatever comes out of the scrum.

Re: Rethinking the App Store

#35

Post by PikachuEXE »

willvarfar wrote: post #32

I'm divided. As a programmer, I'm as happy as a pig in mud in the low-level innards of my computers and operating systems, and like that I can get at them etc. That's why I have linux on my desktop. But 'open' systems don't work out well for 'normal' users. Remember the viruses and trojans and instability and all the rest of the Windows days, or Android? I want my parents and friends and everyone else to use an iphon…

Look MacOS

They do block "unidentified" apps by default but you still have the option to run it anyway (after a series of warnings maybe)

But you can still run them

And I think it can be a start

Re: Rethinking the App Store

#36

Post by zouhair »

willvarfar wrote: post #32

I'm divided. As a programmer, I'm as happy as a pig in mud in the low-level innards of my computers and operating systems, and like that I can get at them etc. That's why I have linux on my desktop. But 'open' systems don't work out well for 'normal' users. Remember the viruses and trojans and instability and all the rest of the Windows days, or Android? I want my parents and friends and everyone else to use an iphon…

Locked by default and unlocked if you want it.

Re: Rethinking the App Store

#37

Post by czzr »

One argument that I think deserves extra scrutiny is the idea that extra app stores can be “optional”.

The reality is that developers would have a strong incentive to go to the most permissive App Store, and users will follow. Users will also underestimate or ignore risks. You can dismiss that by saying it’s the user’s responsibility, but I think that’s just an abdication of good systems design.

I’m not saying that Apple has the perfect model - it doesn’t - but the trade-offs are not as simple as we might like.

Re: Rethinking the App Store

#38

Post by marcus_holmes »

joking wrote: post #27
supermatt wrote: post #13

I am of the opinion that the only fair option is to allow 3rd party stores with the same permissions as the official app store. Apples curation isn't (as they suggest) preventing malware, theft of information, etc - this if verifiably false given recent history with apps like tiktok stealing clipboard content. The ability to change content of payment screens post-approval (as epic have just done) also means that cura…

I'm on the same opinion, once the device is mine I should be able to install whatever I want. What would happen if I couldn't install the software I want on a desktop device? I really don't get how apple has survived so long with such a tight leash on IOS.

Because you're not their target market. Their target market don't want to know about the technical details. They're not nerds like us.

Re: Rethinking the App Store

#39

Post by kalleboo »

threeseed wrote: post #29
supermatt wrote: post #13

I am of the opinion that the only fair option is to allow 3rd party stores with the same permissions as the official app store. Apples curation isn't (as they suggest) preventing malware, theft of information, etc - this if verifiably false given recent history with apps like tiktok stealing clipboard content. The ability to change content of payment screens post-approval (as epic have just done) also means that cura…

Part of Apple's security does in fact come from the curation process. Access to private APIs for example is not preventable at runtime due to the way Objective-C works. And the ability to change payment screens etc at runtime has always been possible. But Apple simply bans the developer and so instances of this happening in the wild have been basically non-existant.

Access to private APIs is also impossible to prevent in screening since it’s trivial to obfuscate

Re: Rethinking the App Store

#40

Post by bluesign »

supermatt wrote: post #13

I am of the opinion that the only fair option is to allow 3rd party stores with the same permissions as the official app store. Apples curation isn't (as they suggest) preventing malware, theft of information, etc - this if verifiably false given recent history with apps like tiktok stealing clipboard content. The ability to change content of payment screens post-approval (as epic have just done) also means that cura…

Having 3rd party stores will be net negative for me as a user.

Currently I have trust to Apple, if I am or my kid charged wrong or tricked into some subscription etc, I have proof with experience that Apple will fix it.

Now let’s say if we have many stores, some stores will try to be smart, will make exclusive deals, force people to install their stores to maybe play a one popular game.

As a user I will end up with 10 stores on my phone, each has my billing information, if I have a problem, not I need to go to that store to handle.

Oh than X app will decide to move from store A to store B, then he needs to move all subscribers there, good luck :)

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