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Want people to do the right thing? Save them the guilt trip

psyche.co

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Re: Want people to do the right thing? Save them the guilt trip

#101

Post by marliechiller »

guerrilla wrote: post #87
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should you self-flagellate for being born in the situation you are in? How would that benefit anyone? Guilt is a negative emotion, and in my opinion you shouldn't have to do penance for things you have no control over. Instead, you can use your position of privilege to do good in whatever way fits. My small contribution, I run an online community (~1000 members in our Discord server) with a zero tolerance policy on r…

> you have no control over Faulty assumption here. You do have control over maintaining the system of privilege that you were born into. That's how it continues from generation to generation, by white people holding on to their money and power instead of working on ways to distribute it.

that is not a fault endemic to white people, but people who are well off. please distance yourself from identarian narratives and treat people as individuals rather than groups of people

Re: Want people to do the right thing? Save them the guilt trip

#102

Post by depressedpanda »

taurath wrote: post #65
peterpeppers wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting point. Martin Luther King Jr spoke quite a bit about addressing GUILT before he was killed. Unfortunately for all of us, he was incredibly unpopular before his death due to his position on the Vietnam War so his message on guilt is lost to transcripts. QUOTE: "The Negro needs the white man to save him from his fears, the white man needs the Negro to save him from his GUILT. We are tied together in so many…

And I must say, though this thought is controversial. If you are a white man born in America, feeling guilt is what you’re supposed to feel, as a human being. Not personal guilt, as few even living today are directly responsible for the systems that came before. But guilt from being born into privilege in a society built entirely to benefit you, from the net worth of your parents, to the quiet mono-racial neighborhoo…

> If you are a white man born in America, feeling guilt is what you’re supposed to feel, as a human being.

Nonsense.

You should feel thankful.

Thankful that you had the luck being born in the most prosperous time in human history, where you have access to better healthcare, transportation, human rights and democratic privileges, to name just a few.

Once you realize how good it is to live in this day and age and feel grateful, helping others who are a bit less fortunate will come naturally to you.

Working from positive emotions is a much better strategy, both for your own sake and - by extension - also for the sake of society at large.

Re: Want people to do the right thing? Save them the guilt trip

#103

Post by cyberdrunk »

guerrilla wrote: post #98
cyberdrunk wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most white people have very little money and even less power.

No, actually, not on average. [1] [1]. https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/03/politics/black-white-us-f...

As reported in the link, median net worth of a white family is $171k. Which is just about enough to buy a median house... Meaning, that the median white family has a house they live in and little else. That's certainly not a position from which you can influence anything.

Re: Want people to do the right thing? Save them the guilt trip

#104

Post by rimliu »

pinopinopino wrote: post #72

Ah, propaganda 101: "If you want to influence your enemy, make sure he/she sympathizes with you". I also read an interesting article about this, that conservatives do care about the environment if you give it the correct emotional cue. E.g. instead of saying they have to save the environment for the future generation (which perhaps generates a guilty feeling), we want to preserve nature to keep it as it is (which the…

I don't really get this obsession with preserving the status quo. It is not universally good and by doing so we may prevent good things from happening.

Re: Want people to do the right thing? Save them the guilt trip

#105

Post by throwaways885 »

taurath wrote: post #65
peterpeppers wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting point. Martin Luther King Jr spoke quite a bit about addressing GUILT before he was killed. Unfortunately for all of us, he was incredibly unpopular before his death due to his position on the Vietnam War so his message on guilt is lost to transcripts. QUOTE: "The Negro needs the white man to save him from his fears, the white man needs the Negro to save him from his GUILT. We are tied together in so many…

And I must say, though this thought is controversial. If you are a white man born in America, feeling guilt is what you’re supposed to feel, as a human being. Not personal guilt, as few even living today are directly responsible for the systems that came before. But guilt from being born into privilege in a society built entirely to benefit you, from the net worth of your parents, to the quiet mono-racial neighborhoo…

This is literally the reason people are saying woke liberals are racist.

Re: Want people to do the right thing? Save them the guilt trip

#107

Post by Nursie »

raxxorrax wrote: post #95
Nursie wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Give them pros and cons so they can make a rational decision? If that actually worked we wouldn't be having this conversation. People, particularly in large groups, use emotion, tribalism and ego protection over reason. If reason and fact worked well to change minds, we wouldn't have idiots "rolling coal".

This is actually a pretty naturalistic explanation and probably mostly wrong. I think people quickly see that you perceive them as idiots and then the ego does indeed run its course. and rightly so.

So the fact that I see someone as an idiot for "rolling coal" is responsible for the behaviour in the first place?

Yeah that totally works.

Re: Want people to do the right thing? Save them the guilt trip

#108

Post by Nursie »

renewiltord wrote: post #56
ccleve wrote: post #25

Lovely. A psychological study on how to manipulate people into supporting your social agenda. How about using, you know, reason? Treating them like adults? Give them pros and cons so they can make a rational decision?

I mean, why don't you do that, and other people will try other things and whoever wins in the marketplace of ideas wins.

I guess the issue is that, like with evolution, the marketplace of ideas does not necessarily reward the ideas that people would think of as "best", but selects for fitness in other ways.

Re: Want people to do the right thing? Save them the guilt trip

#109

Post by rusk »

guerrilla wrote: post #97
rusk wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> white people holding on to their money and power That there is a racist statement. Yes maybe intergenerational wealth causes some issues but to cast it as a purely white issue is just stupid. Avarice is a feature common to all of humanity.

> That there is a racist statement. Hardly. It has nothing to do with who or what they are but rather is literally a description of what they are doing. > white issue It is a white issue that white people oppress others and are the only ones with the power to stop that short of violent overthrow.

Wrong. You can find examples of this behaviour right across the world, regardless of race. Doesn’t make it right.

Re: Want people to do the right thing? Save them the guilt trip

#110

Post by PeterStuer »

The carrot and stick ... it's complicated.

Some people will respond better to one or the other. Also, the carrot of 'feeling good about yourself' has many nuances.

An anecdote:

We used to live in a village that had a few kilometers of semi-rural 2 lane road leading to it. Even though this road was outside city limits, it had many driveways and side streets on it so the speed limit was 50 km/h. At the time we had 2 cars, one regular family car (VW) and one luxury car (BMW).

I always drove at the 50 km/h speed limit. However, when I drove the VW 70% of drivers would overtake me, while when I drove the BMW nearly all drivers would fall in line behind me. This was consistent over years, and extremely obvious once you noticed it. Apparently people are influenced by the behavior of others, but how that influence is achieved can depend on subtle factors.

Another example: For decades there where 'informational feel good' campaigns trying to get drivers to stick to the speed limit on the town's ring road. Decades without any result. When finally a plethora of speed cameras were introduced, the speeding problem was solved in a few months.

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