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Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

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Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#451

Post by dwaite »

gtsteve wrote: post #369
kergonath wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be right; in any case we won’t see it for a while. I think reform of the AppStore is overdue. Some of the rules are counterproductive and with enough of a grey area so that their implementation looks capricious at times. But man, Tim Sweeney is such an arsehole, and Epic’s behaviour is so self-serving...

I think it would have been more self serving for Epic to strike a backroom deal, they've got the clout to do so and it'd probably be better for their shareholders' blood pressure. On the other hand, if this plays out the way they want, then they get 100% of the income (less overheads) which would be an absolute win for them. I don't think their motivation matters however - as an ISV getting kicked off the app store i…

They tried striking a backroom deal first, with a 'and wouldn't it be nice if you gave this to other people as well'.

It didn't seem like any sort of legitimate offer - for one, the "deal" would be that Apple would host fortnite for free, review it for free, and make 0% on in-app purchases. Epic also didn't edit the letter properly and accidentally left an "Android" in rather than changing it to "iOS", so presumably they presented Google with the same offer.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#452

Post by mlindner »

badsectoracula wrote: post #57
ericmay wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we don’t want control over our Nintendo switch or iPhone.

But why? What is the benefit of giving up that control?

Because then someone else can handle making sure I'm not getting virus filled software and it also increases the signal to noise ratio, especially on PS4/Switch. I don't want my PS4/Switch to be a general computing platform.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#453

Post by Mtinie »

GeekyBear wrote: post #394
Mtinie wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Code signing requires an Apple Developer account. Without being about to sign a package you can't publish to the App Store. You can develop apps for iOS and OS X, and then publish to (a) test device(s) from XCode without one, but that's about it.

If I write an app that includes the Facebook SDK, that doesn't mean that Facebook is involved with submitting my app. As long as my developer account is valid, Facebook's account doesn't enter the equation when I am submitting an app that includes their SDK in any way I can see. Can someone shed more light on this?

I'm likely looking at this from a narrow case but how does the Facebook SDK scenario related to the question you asked?

Did I misinterpret your original statement to mean how would the closure of Epic's Apple Developer account impact others (with their own valid Apple Developer accounts) from using their engine within an app they published to the App store?

I understood your question to be "why do I (an app developer) need an Apple Developer account?" A second reading and your response leads me to believe otherwise.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#454

Post by veilrap »

stale2002 wrote: post #365
Humdeee wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just don't use it What's the argument here, why not just don't use an iPhone then? Why turn an iPhone into more of an Android? I have an iPhone because I don't want to be like an Android. It's a feature to me that this (and other possibilities, bad and good) is not possible, hence why I bought it.

> I have an iPhone because I don't want to be like an Android. But you don't have to have it be like Android.... All you have to do is not install other app sores.

The lack of ability to install other App Stores reduces fragmentation and potentially improves the overall user experience of the product.

If I wanted choice in App Stores I would buy an Android phone. I don't care about choice of App Stores and I prefer the consistency of a single, consistent, secure source of Apps. Therefore, I bought an iOS device.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#455

Post by nodamage »

GeekyBear wrote: post #377

Epic seems to be asserting that access to Apple's developer tools requires a developer account. Since XCode is freely downloadable by anyone, does anybody know which tools they are talking about?

Just because you can download and run software doesn't mean you have the legal right to use it. The right to use software is granted via an end user license agreement, and that right can be revoked.

In other words, it's a legal restriction, not a technical one.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#456

Post by thekyle »

zeroimpl wrote: post #133
IvanK_net wrote: post #20

I still wonder why so many people buy devices, where the only software you could run has to be approved by the manufacturer. I think we should speak more about this fact, so that people think twice before they buy some device. I only make websites, but I am worried, that at some point, Apple would want me to pay them, so that my website is openable on their devices.

What great features do Android users get as a result of being able to sideload apps which aren’t available on the App Store? I believe the (weak) answer to the above is the answer to your question. Features are what matters to the majority of users. The ability to sideload apps itself is not.

Well for example you can't run a torrent client on iOS.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#457

Post by veilrap »

withinboredom wrote: post #207
ericmay wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is forcing you to use an iPhone either. There are plenty of options with different trade offs. Allowing 3rd-party app stores has predictable negative externalities (privacy, security, etc.). Which is why I and others are not interested in that development. Apple is able to make developers engage in less shitty business practices precisely because they can control the distribution of software through the App St…

> You don’t buy an iPhone expecting to install whatever you want. I specifically bought an iPhone to facetime my family from another country. I'd love to be able to have my apps from my old android. Or, use facetime from an android... But yeah, I'd love to install whatever I want and that's what I'd expect instead of having to buy everything twice when I switched OSes.

There are plenty of competitors to Facetime, available across multiple different platforms. Google and Facebook for example enjoy pushing their messaging and video messaging ecosystems across multiple devices.

There's nothing unique about Facetime, except it's Apple exclusive.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#458

Post by dwaite »

jariel wrote: post #392
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perhaps it's time for some major app makers to have a day or two where they pull their apps. Epic's actions with Fortnite were effectively this. They were aware Apple would pull the app, but that them doing so would give them clear standing to sue Apple for the contract terms. For even a lot of "major" app makers though, pulling their apps off iOS in protest would put them out of business. (Even where Android excel…

If Snapchat, Facebook, Instagram, Whatsapp, PayPal were all pulled for 2 days at the same time, and then put back up, it would make a huge international stink, global headlines to raise awareness. Literally Joe Biden would hear about it. Same day take out an editorial or page-sized ad in the Times. Apple needs apps as much as apps need them, it just takes enough coordination.

If all those apps pulled their versions down at the same time, Facebook/Paypal/Whatapp could very well wind up in court over antitrust concerns as well.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#459

Post by jayd16 »

dgellow wrote: post #32

Could someone explain what was Apple trying to do? I really don't get their position in this story. It seemed obvious that trying to completely block Epic's Unreal Engine would be causing more legal issues. What is their strategy here? It feels that they actually wanted things to escalate, though I cannot see why they would do this.

I think Apple was outplayed here, at least for now. Apple uses a single developer account system for both iOS and MacOS. Revoking violating dev accounts is somewhat understandable but because Epic is a large tool vendor on MacOS as well, disabling that account has massive downstream consequences. Due to the particular implementation I don't think its possible for Apple to revoke only the iOS assets.

By being forced to reinstate the entire account under anticompetitive scrutiny, its a PR loss for Apple. If Epic had separate dev accounts for its MacOS and iOS presence it would have played out differently.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#460

Post by Dahoon »

dkonofalski wrote: post #368
admax88q wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can epic develop the engine if they are banned form using Apple development tools.

They probably should have thought about that before they purposely violated their developer agreements...

One can agree with one side or the other but this is nothing short of Apple using its dominant position to try and hurt Epic because they got mad. It has nothing to do with kicking someone out for breach of the app store rules. Fortnight and Epic's Unreal engine are two entirely different legal entities. As you could have read in the ruling.
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