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Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

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Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#361

Post by medbrane »

cycloptic wrote: post #184
ericmay wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they have a good enough track record so far. If you feel the iPhone is unsafe, you're free to buy a different phone or not use one at all. Why would Apple be less incentivized than another company, like Epic, to protect your data? Apple sells the iPhone and markets it toward pro-privacy and security. Going against that is not in their own best interest. It's in Epic's interest to break through that, because the…

>Why would Apple be less incentivized than another company, like Epic, to protect your data? Probably because their store doesn't have to compete? I would say they really are not doing a good job at this considering their track record contains plenty of dark patterns, privacy violations, tracking, data mining, censorship, and so on. If you don't believe me I can provide plenty of examples. The situation might be marg…

They do a lot better than a hypothetical Facebook store, which Epic suit would make possible.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#362

Post by kergonath »

gtsteve wrote: post #345
kergonath wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I agree with the first half of what you said, which is not was the OP said. As for the rest, I have seen far too many “this time, Apple is doomed for real” events to agree with your last sentence. Apple could stop selling any device today and still be around in 10 years.

To be clear, I don't think they're doomed, but I think this measure will provide ammunition to those who want to sideload apps and make their own app stores, which is presumably what Epic wants. I think this has been inevitable for some time, but I think by making this mistake they have they they've accelerated the process and damaged their monopoly far earlier than they had to. Note: Perhaps I am just seeing what I…

You might be right; in any case we won’t see it for a while.

I think reform of the AppStore is overdue. Some of the rules are counterproductive and with enough of a grey area so that their implementation looks capricious at times. But man, Tim Sweeney is such an arsehole, and Epic’s behaviour is so self-serving...

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#363

Post by Delphiki »

admax88q wrote: post #281
a2tech wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this still an Epic issue? Basically if Epic delivered their engine to their customers as source code and NOT as a compiled binary couldn't the customers build the engine and include it in their App Store submission? But since Epic is trying to deliver the compiled engine to their customer (signed with their dev keys) thats where the problem comes in?

How can epic develop the engine if they are banned form using Apple development tools.

They aren't banned from using Apple's development tools.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#364

Post by [deleted] »

parasubvert wrote: post #354
bananaface wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, don't be patronising. We'll see how the case pans out. I think Apple is in enough danger that aggravating the situation is a bad idea. https://twitter.com/EskilSteenberg/status/129752027579013939...

Per that analysis, there are massive differences vs the Microsoft case. - safari is a minority marketshare browser and already existed when iOS was created; Windows already had its marketshare dominance before the browser was invented - Portable music also pre-existed before iOS. iPhone and Android were laughing stocks in 2008. To say these points are anticompetitive would require proving they achieved their marketsh…

[deleted]

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#365

Post by stale2002 »

Humdeee wrote: post #287
marakv2 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think that allowing another app store will ruin your iPhone? That's incorrect. Just don't use it.

> Just don't use it What's the argument here, why not just don't use an iPhone then? Why turn an iPhone into more of an Android? I have an iPhone because I don't want to be like an Android. It's a feature to me that this (and other possibilities, bad and good) is not possible, hence why I bought it.

> I have an iPhone because I don't want to be like an Android.

But you don't have to have it be like Android.... All you have to do is not install other app sores.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#366

Post by wcarey »

simion314 wrote: post #310
wcarey wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Broadly gym subscriptions aren't handled through apps. I'm assuming that there will be a tragedy of the commons, something Apple has only been moderately effective at preventing, that will reduce the quality of terms-of-service for users. I too used to create small apps and games and share them with my friends. I still do that on a headless raspberry pi, which is a vastly superior environment than the one I had acces…

Now imagine my son making a small game and wants to share it with his cousin but now the cousin needs to run Linux to run code not approved by a corporation.(you need to not forget people that might not be rich and can afford many different devices). Anyway do you have any examples (more then 1) of companies that ONLY offer side loading because they are evil and want to trick the customer (with subscriptions or to st…

As I’ve said, tradeoffs. The raspis I’m talking about run about $100 for a complete system. Not nothing, but accessible to many people in Apple’s target demographic. They’re ideally suited for what you’re aiming at.

One example jumps to mind - wasn’t Facebook running a side loaded VPN that was doing some unsavory things until Apple banned it? I think the place to look for that sort of thing right now would be companies abusing the enterprise development system.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#367

Post by [deleted] »

spott wrote: post #228
jaimex2 wrote: post #219

Shame, blocking the Unreal engine would have hurt Apple a lot more than Epic though lets face it the real losers would have been developers.

How do you figure? Apple's customers usually have gaming as a pretty low priority for purchasing of Apple products. The PR hit?

[deleted]

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#368

Post by dkonofalski »

admax88q wrote: post #281
a2tech wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this still an Epic issue? Basically if Epic delivered their engine to their customers as source code and NOT as a compiled binary couldn't the customers build the engine and include it in their App Store submission? But since Epic is trying to deliver the compiled engine to their customer (signed with their dev keys) thats where the problem comes in?

How can epic develop the engine if they are banned form using Apple development tools.

They probably should have thought about that before they purposely violated their developer agreements...

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#369

Post by gtsteve »

kergonath wrote: post #362
gtsteve wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, I don't think they're doomed, but I think this measure will provide ammunition to those who want to sideload apps and make their own app stores, which is presumably what Epic wants. I think this has been inevitable for some time, but I think by making this mistake they have they they've accelerated the process and damaged their monopoly far earlier than they had to. Note: Perhaps I am just seeing what I…

You might be right; in any case we won’t see it for a while. I think reform of the AppStore is overdue. Some of the rules are counterproductive and with enough of a grey area so that their implementation looks capricious at times. But man, Tim Sweeney is such an arsehole, and Epic’s behaviour is so self-serving...

I think it would have been more self serving for Epic to strike a backroom deal, they've got the clout to do so and it'd probably be better for their shareholders' blood pressure.

On the other hand, if this plays out the way they want, then they get 100% of the income (less overheads) which would be an absolute win for them.

I don't think their motivation matters however - as an ISV getting kicked off the app store is no longer a potential death sentence or a wasted investment; you just need to get smart about how you distribute.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#370

Post by dkonofalski »

username90 wrote: post #350
dkonofalski wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not going after "unrelated business", though. They cancelled Epic's developer account which is exactly the remediation listed in the agreement for the account. If you violate the terms, your account is suspended. Epic brought this on themselves when they made their move without thinking about how that would affect the rest of their business.

> They cancelled Epic's developer account which is exactly the remediation listed in the agreement for the account. No, Epic is two different companies with two different accounts. Apple canceled both the account for Fortnite and the account for Unreal.

No, they didn't. They responded to Epic threatening to cease assistance for the 2nd arm of Epic if the Fortnite arm refused to comply. Only 1 account was cancelled.
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